Cabriolet 1952 MY
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Cabriolet 1952 MY
Hi,
Can you guys tell me if the rear window in a 1952 MY (10271-10350) cabriolet is plastic or glass.
Thank you
Andy
Can you guys tell me if the rear window in a 1952 MY (10271-10350) cabriolet is plastic or glass.
Thank you
Andy
- Bil Brown
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
Hi Bil,
I am confused: from Brett book (page 44) Early Reutter cabriolets were fitted with a glass rear window in a woden frame,as illustrated
in the 1953 parts book.This style of top was altered in October 1953 when a larger plastic rear window was introduced
I am confused: from Brett book (page 44) Early Reutter cabriolets were fitted with a glass rear window in a woden frame,as illustrated
in the 1953 parts book.This style of top was altered in October 1953 when a larger plastic rear window was introduced
- Bil Brown
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- Jules Dielen
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
Hi Andrea, yes a small glass oval window much like a 1957 vw bug. Ask albert haefner in saarbruecken if you need the parts.
Jules
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Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
I agree it was a small window in a wooden frame, (frame hidden by top material and headliner material), but it was thick (4mm) plexiglass not glass.
- Brett Johnson
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
I don't recall where I got the information originally that it was glass, but I believe it was. It is illustrated in the 1953 parts catalog, but does not identify the material. The frame for Reutter windows prior to the 1953 model year was wood.
The Gläser back window was definitely thick plastic and the frame for it was aluminum.
The Gläser back window was definitely thick plastic and the frame for it was aluminum.
Brett Johnson
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
My Feb '53 has been in the family since 1955 and as far as I know the top has only been replaced once. The rear window which I believe is the original one is 4mm thick plastic. I saved it for the pattern (or maybe I am just a packrat) and photo attached. Also attached photos of inside and outside trimming of top-window area.
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
Regrettably, the parts catalogs can be incomplete (and incorrect!). The 1953 book shows a wooden framed window with an outer part made from wood (the top would tack to this). Next is a seal, a window of undefined material and finally an inner frame identified as being made from plywood. The top covering material is not illustrated or described in this book.
I have three 1955 parts books (doesn't everybody?). One thing I have learned through the years is look at all of them. Some have pages updated as time passed or when they were actually printed. Two of mine are identical. They are later printings -- early-mid-1960s and have pages relevant to that time or were at a dealership that updated pages. New pages are not dated as they were in later years. Illustration 32 shows a convertible top (#1 356.51.800/2) described as having "plastic rear window sewn in" and shows a top that looks like the one attached (1956). Below this description are two dashes indicating eliminated information -- hmmmm... Item #8 is a replacement window with a 644 number and states it is for cabriolets from #60390 -- April 1954/roughly the beginning of the 1954 model year (when horn grilles appeared).
The other copy I have is a photocopy provided by the late Richard Miller many years ago. It has no 644 numbers, only 356 ones. You probably guessed -- it has the missing information and then some.
Item #1
356.51.800/2 Top with sewn in window (as before)
356.51.800/1 "Top complete, without frame and decorating strips" Huh?
356.51.800 "Top cover canvas for small window without glass"
Item #8
356.57.355 Plastic window as previously described
356.51.861 "Rear window frame (Wood) -- Convertibles 5015--60389" 5015 was the first Reutter cabriolet. 5001 was the first Gläser cabriolet which didn't have replacement parts
356.51.862 "Rear window frame (plywood) -- Convertibles 5015--60389"
356.57.351 "Rear window glass -- Convertibles 5015--60389"
356.57.353 "Weatherstrip for rear window Convertibles 5015--60389"
All of these numbers are the same as in the 1953 catalog. This indicates the window was glass, since it doesn't identify it as plastic. The 1953 book calls the window the "rear wall".
I have three 1955 parts books (doesn't everybody?). One thing I have learned through the years is look at all of them. Some have pages updated as time passed or when they were actually printed. Two of mine are identical. They are later printings -- early-mid-1960s and have pages relevant to that time or were at a dealership that updated pages. New pages are not dated as they were in later years. Illustration 32 shows a convertible top (#1 356.51.800/2) described as having "plastic rear window sewn in" and shows a top that looks like the one attached (1956). Below this description are two dashes indicating eliminated information -- hmmmm... Item #8 is a replacement window with a 644 number and states it is for cabriolets from #60390 -- April 1954/roughly the beginning of the 1954 model year (when horn grilles appeared).
The other copy I have is a photocopy provided by the late Richard Miller many years ago. It has no 644 numbers, only 356 ones. You probably guessed -- it has the missing information and then some.
Item #1
356.51.800/2 Top with sewn in window (as before)
356.51.800/1 "Top complete, without frame and decorating strips" Huh?
356.51.800 "Top cover canvas for small window without glass"
Item #8
356.57.355 Plastic window as previously described
356.51.861 "Rear window frame (Wood) -- Convertibles 5015--60389" 5015 was the first Reutter cabriolet. 5001 was the first Gläser cabriolet which didn't have replacement parts
356.51.862 "Rear window frame (plywood) -- Convertibles 5015--60389"
356.57.351 "Rear window glass -- Convertibles 5015--60389"
356.57.353 "Weatherstrip for rear window Convertibles 5015--60389"
All of these numbers are the same as in the 1953 catalog. This indicates the window was glass, since it doesn't identify it as plastic. The 1953 book calls the window the "rear wall".
Last edited by Brett Johnson on Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Brett Johnson
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
………anyway, VW Split Cabriolets ‘52 have rear window, similar to 356, in glass (marked Sekurit).
It’s difficult to believe that VW used glass and Porsche used cheapest plastic in the same years.
Andy
It’s difficult to believe that VW used glass and Porsche used cheapest plastic in the same years.
Andy
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
We restored a 52 cab many moons ago. Pretty sure the rear window has a sigla logo.
Jules
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Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
Sigla was laminated glass, so I suspect it was a Sekurit (tempered), like Andy posted. The story about Sigla coupe rear windows is in the Conradt book.
Brett Johnson
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
Checked to see if I had any photos of early cabs that might shed some light on if the rear window was glass or plastic.....doesen't really show much one way or other. Photos are from '52 cab 15111. I still believe original was plastic.
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Re: Cabriolet 1952 MY
In the last 24 hours I have looked at (literally) thousands of photos of 1953 and earlier Reutter cabriolets taken in the last 20 years. Not surprisingly high res. closeup photos of the rear windows were practically nonexistent. In addition unrestored cars with the small Reutter rear window were also rare and all had barn find quality condition and were quite dirty. The vast majority of cars, even the restored ones, had incorrect window configuration. Most were too large and some of the small ones were just typical soft plastic sewn to the top material.
Having said that -- I found no photos that had visible SEKURIT logos on any photo. Some of the restored cars were obviously plastic (Plexiglas would have also been marked) and others may be glass, but no logos visible in the photos.
I suspect that my source that they were originally glass is the Conradt book, Porsche 356, Driving in its Purest Form (1989), which has incredible detail about the early years using Porsche's actual internal documentation. If you don't have it, you need it -- and I'm not saying that because my company published the English language edition (ran out of inventory around 20 years ago, so you'll need to look on eBay).
It says on page 41 in a photo caption for a Model 52 Reutter cabriolet from the rear with skis in the snow "The heavily padded cloth top allowed limited rearward visibility via a small, wood-rimmed glass window." On page 78, it shows a 1953 MY cabriolet that Herr Conradt calls "the small glass peephole" referring to the rear window and goes on to say a larger rear window of transparent plastic was fitted after April 1953 -- though the parts catalogs correctly identify that as April 1954.
I can't prove that the windows were either plastic or glass and unless someone has a period rear glass window with manufacture's mark (since it is a part with very poor survivability), no one else will, as well.
Attached factory photos are the same 1953 cabriolet described in the Conradt book in the same location, but with the top down and a 1954 model cabriolet (horn grilles and small hood handle) showing the larger rear window.
Having said that -- I found no photos that had visible SEKURIT logos on any photo. Some of the restored cars were obviously plastic (Plexiglas would have also been marked) and others may be glass, but no logos visible in the photos.
I suspect that my source that they were originally glass is the Conradt book, Porsche 356, Driving in its Purest Form (1989), which has incredible detail about the early years using Porsche's actual internal documentation. If you don't have it, you need it -- and I'm not saying that because my company published the English language edition (ran out of inventory around 20 years ago, so you'll need to look on eBay).
It says on page 41 in a photo caption for a Model 52 Reutter cabriolet from the rear with skis in the snow "The heavily padded cloth top allowed limited rearward visibility via a small, wood-rimmed glass window." On page 78, it shows a 1953 MY cabriolet that Herr Conradt calls "the small glass peephole" referring to the rear window and goes on to say a larger rear window of transparent plastic was fitted after April 1953 -- though the parts catalogs correctly identify that as April 1954.
I can't prove that the windows were either plastic or glass and unless someone has a period rear glass window with manufacture's mark (since it is a part with very poor survivability), no one else will, as well.
Attached factory photos are the same 1953 cabriolet described in the Conradt book in the same location, but with the top down and a 1954 model cabriolet (horn grilles and small hood handle) showing the larger rear window.
Brett Johnson