1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

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Diane Mierz
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1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#1 Post by Diane Mierz »

Hi everyone – this is the first time I have posted seeking mechanical advice but I am getting to my wit’s end as to why my 1964 SC won’t start. I had a full engine rebuild 6,000 miles ago at a very reputable venue but have really not done much maintenance other than oil changes and valve adjustments. In the last 1000 miles I have noticed a slight decline in performance and knew once the driving season was over I would have to learn how to do a tune-up. I am eager to learn but have to admit not the most mechanically inclined when it comes to things like this. Anyway, about a month or so ago the engine would not catch – it would turn over but that was about it. I figured the best course of action was to finally perform that long overdue tune up and so I spent a lot of time pouring through the great technical articles available here (Ron LaDow, Jerry Wells) and that hopefully whatever the real issue was would reveal itself along the way. I started by setting the valves and then moved up to the ignition. Removed all plugs and regapped. All were out of spec (.030” vs .022”) and #2 was blacker than the other 3 which looked a little black but in my opinion not awful. All wires had approximately 1000 ohms of resistance. My points were definitely worn and I observed some pitting and a build up in the center. Initially I filed them, regapped and reinstalled them and statically checked timing but when I wasn’t able to start the engine I installed what I believe to be new points. I have a rebuilt distributor which came in a parts purchase from a friend and I have pulled off parts from it which appear new but I have no guarantee of that. Still no start. I have read enough about condensers going bad where I also pulled the condenser off the rebuilt unit and installed that. Still no start. Swapped out the coil. No difference. When I check voltage I see 6V at the positive side of the coil and 6V at the negative side of the coil when the points are open. I see 6V where the coil wire meets the distributor. When I rotate the engine I see 6V approximately at 3 degrees before TDC and at intervals when I rotate the engine and the points open. I see spark at the points and also from the main coil wire when held to ground. There was an instance when I had the distributor out for the second time where once I installed it I didn’t get it seated well enough and while rotating the pully noticed that the distributor rotor wasn’t turning but a friend conversant with VWs sent me a picture of what the set up should look like inside the hole the distributor goes into for it to be in #1 location as opposed to #3…. Pretty sure I got that right. The car now has been sitting some time without turning over so I ran the electric priming pump before trying to start – now it’s sitting on a trickle charger to get the battery totally charged again. Sorry this is so long winded – my biggest concern is that in trying to figure out what the problem is I have replaced perfectly good parts with ones which might not work and that what was probably a simple problem may be more complicated right now. Any thoughts of something I may have missed? Is there a way to bench test things to know they are working before installing? Any suggestion would be really appreciated – I guess even though I haven’t been successful here I am learning more about my car which of course is the goal. Just getting less and less confident with every passing hour I spend working on it…..thanks in advance – you guys are an amazing resource!
1964 SC cabriolet
1956 Karmann Ghia coupe
1963 Karmann Ghia convertible
1996 Miata M edition

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Ken Tuvman
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#2 Post by Ken Tuvman »

Hard to diagnose here - you’ll get some constructive suggestions- I installed distributor 180 degrees off and car definitively would not start! I learned working on BMW air cooled bikes to look back at what I last did because 9/10times it was something I missed.
A local Porsche club is a good resource and when I’m totally at wits end I hire a professional mechanic familiar with my product.

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Larry Brooks
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#3 Post by Larry Brooks »

Since you appear to have addressed the electrical side of the equation, I have to wonder about the fuel side. I noticed that you made little mention of it.

A few questions: Does it fire at all or just crank? Do you smell fuel after cranking or pumping the accelerator? Have you verified that the carbs are getting an adequate supply of fuel? How much fuel is in the tank? If it is on the low side is the selector turned to Reserve? Sounds silly to ask, but long ago I bought a car that "would not run". I bought the car and when I went over with a trailer to pick it up I tried switching the selector to reserve, put a bit of fuel into each Zenith and it fired right up. Driving it onto the trailer was much easier than using my come-along. That car had a new distributor and coil when I bought it.

A quick test would be to put a teaspoon of fuel into the throats of each carb. If it tries to fire or briefly runs, its probably a fuel supply problem.

Good luck.
Last edited by Larry Brooks on Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Martin Benade
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#4 Post by Martin Benade »

Along the same thinking, if the accelerator pumps don’t work, the car will not start even though it might run reasonably well. The teaspoons of fuel l will get around this.
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David Jones
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#5 Post by David Jones »

Start again at square one.
Make sure you have fuel by seeing the accel pumps are squinting fuel into the throats.
Turn engine to TDC on #1. Double check you are on #1. Remove distributor cap and coil wire from center of distributor cap.
Make sure rotor points to #1 cylinder on cap.
Place ignition on, place end of ignition wire from coil within 1/4" of ground, move distributor rotor back and forth so that you are making and breaking points. Should be a spark at end of coil wire.
Reassemble and try starting, if no start check rotor for continuity. Also could pull #2 plug wire and with spare plug installed in holder with plug to ground have someone spin engine over and check for spark.
Check that carbon brush is in place inside center of distributor cap.
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Dave Erickson
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#6 Post by Dave Erickson »

Re: double check you are on 1. Pop the right valve cover and check you have valve clearance on intake and exhaust.

Also look at the bottom of the distributor, make sure there is no gap, that it is all the way installed and the drive slot is engaged.

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Jon Schmid
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#7 Post by Jon Schmid »

A longshot but if you're not getting spark, check that the little insulation pad for the distributor cam lobes is intact, otherwise your points will electrically ground and will not work. Don't ask me how I know... Good luck!!

Diane Mierz
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#8 Post by Diane Mierz »

First off, thanks to everyone who responded. I will try to answer everything in the order it was asked. Since I know when I started this process it was at TDC when I adjusted the valves certainly popping open the valve cover for #1 and checking gaps would be the way to know for certain I got the orientation of the distributor correct. I will check that first. It cranks- I do not hear it fire or attempt to fire. I also wondered whether it was getting fuel and before working today. I ran the priming pump until I smelled gas and tried – but I guess I have switched out a couple electrical items since then. I know the electric priming pump works because I loosened the line right before the fuel pump and got a flow of gas but whether it’s making it past the fuel pump and into the carbs is the million dollar question. The tank is mostly full and the tap is in open position. I also turned it to reserve just to see if that was the issue and back when I did that there was no change. David – you mention being able to see gas squirt down the throats – carbs are a bit of a mystery for me – if this is happening is it really obvious? I can’t say for certain I have seen gas squirting into the throats. I forgot to mention in the previous post that I did remove the center wire from the cap to check for a spark when rotating the engine and it appears bright. I haven’t tried checking #2 wire, though – that’s a good idea. Someone at a party I was at tonight suggested switching out the cap and I will try that as well. Distributor appears to be in all the way – it took some fiddling back and forth but it seated and the rotor turns as I rotate the engine. Jon – the insulation in the distributor looks good and they do spark on intervals so more and more I have to agree it looks fuel related. What sort of precautions should I take when I add a teaspoon of fuel to each carb other than standing back and having a fire extinguisher at the ready? What is the likelihood of fire? After thinking about this more I bet it’s fuel related…..
1964 SC cabriolet
1956 Karmann Ghia coupe
1963 Karmann Ghia convertible
1996 Miata M edition

Diane Mierz
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#9 Post by Diane Mierz »

One additional question - Many non Porsche people have advised me to try a little squirt of ether instead of gas. I have also heard ether is the one thing you do not want to use. I realize that ether is a solvent and lacks the lubrication properties gas has and could cause wear but won't that also happen with gas which contains ethanol? The argument for ether is that it would ignite easier as a quick test and that you wouldn't actually run the engine with it. What are the cons of ether? The fellow who built the engine told me under no circumstances to ever use it. Would love to hear your thoughts.
1964 SC cabriolet
1956 Karmann Ghia coupe
1963 Karmann Ghia convertible
1996 Miata M edition

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Jon Schmid
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#10 Post by Jon Schmid »

Please do NOT use ether!!!

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Phil Planck
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#11 Post by Phil Planck »

Here is a screen shot from 356 Carb Rescue showing how to measure your Solex injection nozzle output using a vial. Assuming your SC has the stock Solex carbs you should be able to see fuel squirting out of these nozzles after priming. It may take a few rotations of the throttle levers to begin seeing fuel squirt out of all 4 nozzles(1 per throat). If you dont see fuel squirting out you have a blockage or faulty parts in the pump circuit.
Screenshot_20221204-204122.png
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Martin Benade
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#12 Post by Martin Benade »

To check the accelerator pumps remove the air cleaners. Each time you open the throttle by hand it should squirt a fine stream of fuel down both throats, on both sides.
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#13 Post by Wes Bender »

Jon Schmid wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:40 pm Please do NOT use ether!!!
Ether will detonate rather than burn at a normal rate. Use it to start your diesel, not your Porsche.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

Diane Mierz
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#14 Post by Diane Mierz »

Again- really appreciate all of this. Yes, Phil, I am running the stock Solexes and 356 Carb rescue rebuilt them. Never thought to look at their website. This is incredibly useful information. Let me make sure I have aligned the distributor correctly and I will switch out the cap. I will then try to understand what is going on with fuel (or lackthereof) in my carbs. I'll report back as soon as I get the chance to work on it more. Thanks everyone!
1964 SC cabriolet
1956 Karmann Ghia coupe
1963 Karmann Ghia convertible
1996 Miata M edition

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Martin Benade
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Re: 1964 SC won't start- newbie seeks help

#15 Post by Martin Benade »

Luckily the distributor only goes in one way unlike many cars that will take it 180 degrees off.
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