Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

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David Lawrence
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Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#1 Post by David Lawrence »

New research conducted by S&P Global Mobility has found that brand loyalty - measured as the percentage of buyers that go back to the same brand for their next vehicle - is falling across the luxury segment.

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https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/br ... automakers
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#2 Post by C J Murray »

Alfa gets a better rating than Audi or Porsche. BMW is better than Alfa. My limited experience of buying these brands new(Milano x 2, Spider, A6 2.7T 6 speed, Boxster S, 328XI 2 door 6 speed) is this. None of those cars had any reliability problems or were they problematic in any way. Consumer Reports said that the Milano was the most problematic car sold in the US but our 200,000 miles in 2 of those proved them wrong. As for driving enjoyment the BMW was absolutely the worst new car that we ever owned. The engineering of the chassis was awful. The Audi was a delight. The Boxster was competent but boring. The Alfas always put a smile on our faces.

Articles like this don't mean much to me but I bet that Porsche studies these subjects closely.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#3 Post by Wes Bender »

My own personal experience: After owning three BMWs, I found that each one was not as good as the previous one. Same thing with Mercedes after owning four of them. The only vehicle that I have owned that each succeeding one was better (and that I liked even more) was the Toyota Tacoma. The newest Porsche that I have owned was a '66 912. All the others were 356s. I wouldn't say that the 912 was better or worse than the 356s. It was different. Handled differently, braked differently and had a five speed box. Of course YMMV. (Luckily I can't compare the only real mistake I ever bought, a Renault Dauphine (sp?). I never owned a second one.)

Added by edit: 356s, I owned a '57 356A 1600 Super, originally with a roller bearing crank. That was replaced. While I truly enjoyed that car, I liked the 356Cs even better.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#4 Post by Sebastian Gaeta »

I'd be curious to see those numbers if you removed Porsche's SUVs from the calculation. My totally unscientific wild a** guess is Porsche's rating would improve since many of the SUV buyers aren't necessarily Porsche loyalists and might be more apt to jump to another brand. We service quite a few Cayenne and Macan that are the customer's first Porsche vehicle and they are very different from the Porsche sports car customers. They are not so enamored with the brand itself and look at their SUV more as an appliance and not a lifestyle. With our Porsche sports car customers it is most definitely a lifestyle for them and they tend to be very loyal to the brand.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#5 Post by Mike Wilson »

That's a good point, Sebastian. Personally I think a lot of these cars are getting over-engineered and new "upgrades" are too hastily done without sufficient time to detect problems. Ferrari now has a huge recall for the brake fluid reservoir cap. Porsche had the IMS problem among others. Ah the simplicity of the 356!

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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#6 Post by C J Murray »

Just the fact that a master cylinder cap replacement is considered a notable flaw shows you how ridiculously spoiled the modern consumer has become.

My business sells four brands of Japanese vehicles and one brand of American vehicle. They are all incredibly trouble free but the American made Polaris is slightly more likely to require a repair. The Polaris brand performs better, has more innovation, and is more exciting, in my opinion. Others may disagree. One thing that is certain is that the Japanese have set a standard that has forced all other manufacturers to improve their products. If a Toyota Camry owner needs to go to the dealer to have their master cylinder cap replaced they would need counseling. Spoiled. If a Honda engineer makes a mistake he has shamed his family name. We are all spoiled.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#7 Post by Mike Wilson »

There was something about the cap that affected the brakes so Ferrari must have thought it a significant safety item. Interesting it took them so long to figure it out.

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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#8 Post by C J Murray »

Mike Wilson wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:29 pm There was something about the cap that affected the brakes so Ferrari must have thought it a significant safety item. Interesting it took them so long to figure it out.

Mike
That recall covers nearly 20 years of production so it is safe to say that failures must have been nil or all the Ferrari owners would be dead. I read somewhere that a vent would clog but I don't know. I bet Ferrari has had worse recalls than that one.

Speaking if the IMS bearing failures; I know a guy that occasionally used his 911 for track days and when the IMS bearing later failed and destroyed the engine while driving on the street Porsche looked at the black box data and denied his warranty claim because he used the car on the track. That is what he told me anyway. Regardless, those bearing failures hurt a lot of people financially. Dumb idea using a sealed bearing in that application.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#9 Post by Adam Wright »

C J Murray wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:28 pm Just the fact that a master cylinder cap replacement is considered a notable flaw shows you how ridiculously spoiled the modern consumer has become.

My business sells four brands of Japanese vehicles and one brand of American vehicle. They are all incredibly trouble free but the American made Polaris is slightly more likely to require a repair. The Polaris brand performs better, has more innovation, and is more exciting, in my opinion. Others may disagree. One thing that is certain is that the Japanese have set a standard that has forced all other manufacturers to improve their products. If a Toyota Camry owner needs to go to the dealer to have their master cylinder cap replaced they would need counseling. Spoiled. If a Honda engineer makes a mistake he has shamed his family name. We are all spoiled.
Starting back in the 70's the Japanese forced the world to a higher standard of manufacturing. I remember a case study in business school in college where a tractor maker in TX outsourced their starter motors to a Japanese firm. They gave them the specs for the starter and made the demand, "We will tolerate no more than a 10% failure rate for the units!"
The Japanese firm didn't understand the demand, it got lost in translation. When the order was delivered there were multiple pallets of new starters and one small one in the corner with red X's on the units. The Japanese said the X'ed ones were the defective ones, which they didn't understand why the TX company wanted those. Apparently the Japanese had a through testing program where they would weed out any defective units before shipping to the buyer. They found it funny that the American company wanted the bad ones, since it was inconceivable that they would ever ship bad ones, since they had all been tested.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#10 Post by Pete Indelicato »

Wes Bender wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:25 am My own personal experience: After owning three BMWs, I found that each one was not as good as the previous one. Same thing with Mercedes after owning four of them. The only vehicle that I have owned that each succeeding one was better (and that I liked even more) was the Toyota Tacoma. The newest Porsche that I have owned was a '66 912. All the others were 356s. I wouldn't say that the 912 was better or worse than the 356s. It was different. Handled differently, braked differently and had a five speed box. Of course YMMV. (Luckily I can't compare the only real mistake I ever bought, a Renault Dauphine (sp?). I never owned a second one.)

Added by edit: 356s, I owned a '57 356A 1600 Super, originally with a roller bearing crank. That was replaced. While I truly enjoyed that car, I liked the 356Cs even better.
I feel the same way about Subarus --have had 4 over the years and each one was better than the previous one. The 356 is just a 'hobby'.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#11 Post by Adam Wright »

Wes Bender wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:25 am My own personal experience: After owning three BMWs, I found that each one was not as good as the previous one. Same thing with Mercedes after owning four of them. The only vehicle that I have owned that each succeeding one was better (and that I liked even more) was the Toyota Tacoma. The newest Porsche that I have owned was a '66 912. All the others were 356s. I wouldn't say that the 912 was better or worse than the 356s. It was different. Handled differently, braked differently and had a five speed box. Of course YMMV. (Luckily I can't compare the only real mistake I ever bought, a Renault Dauphine (sp?). I never owned a second one.)

Added by edit: 356s, I owned a '57 356A 1600 Super, originally with a roller bearing crank. That was replaced. While I truly enjoyed that car, I liked the 356Cs even better.
I made the mistake a few years ago of buying a 2001-2007 Mercedes, during the Chysler merger days. The "Benz" I thought I bought was a re-badged LeBaron, and it showed, it was in the shop 4 times in a year, something that has never happened to me with a Benz. I traded it on a 2012 E350, built in Stuttgart. Shame on Benz for doing that to me.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#12 Post by C J Murray »

Pete Indelicato wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:21 pm I feel the same way about Subarus --have had 4 over the years and each one was better than the previous one. The 356 is just a 'hobby'.
Pete, I agree. I have owned one used Subaru and three new ones. I never had any problem with any of them. I did quickly sell the first year STI I bought because the suspension was too stiff for a daily driver on PA roads. It was still better than the BMW that my wife had. The STI was replaced by a Forester Turbo which was a real sleeper and very practical, like the WRX wagon I had before the STI. Subaru listened to their customers and the second year STI had vastly improved real world suspension. My daughter has a new WRX sedan that she loves.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#13 Post by Scott McAdams »

I agree that many of the Porsche SUV buyers are probably not real knowledgeable of, or loyal to the brand (unlike the 911 buyers for example). Also, i think Tesla is stealing a lot of market share in the luxury market, which is probably also influencing the loyalty data.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#14 Post by Pete Indelicato »

C J Murray wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:34 am
Pete Indelicato wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:21 pm I feel the same way about Subarus --have had 4 over the years and each one was better than the previous one. The 356 is just a 'hobby'.
Pete, I agree. I have owned one used Subaru and three new ones. I never had any problem with any of them. I did quickly sell the first year STI I bought because the suspension was too stiff for a daily driver on PA roads. It was still better than the BMW that my wife had. The STI was replaced by a Forester Turbo which was a real sleeper and very practical, like the WRX wagon I had before the STI. Subaru listened to their customers and the second year STI had vastly improved real world suspension. My daughter has a new WRX sedan that she loves.
CJ--I just recently test drove a new turbo Outback--nothing like the other Outbacks I have owned--acceleration with the turbo was surprising. Might buy one.
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Re: Brand Loyalty Is Declining - Luxury Automakers

#15 Post by Brian R Adams »

Scott McAdams wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:42 am Also, i think Tesla is stealing a lot of market share in the luxury market, which is probably also influencing the loyalty data.
In 2021, the top five selling luxury cars in the US in decreasing order were: BMW, M-B, Lexus, Audi, Tesla.
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