Assistance Requested - '52 - 519 Transmission Identification

[Bob Kierejczyk]

Main Discussion or Pre-A Corner - wasn't sure......

With time on my hands I thought I’d clean up an old ’52 - 519 Transmission Case/Intermediate Plate/Nose Cone I have lying around.
In doing so I’ve located several different sets of numbers on both the Case and Nose Cone.
Thought it might be interesting to connect the various dots to search out the meaning of each if for no other reason than historical purposes.
It would be fascinating to also see if someone could shed some light as to which car this case might have been assigned to in ‘52/’53.

Here’s what’s been exposed;

Case Number: 300 H5 (in two places on the case). Is this the 300th transmission manufactured by Porsche in 1952? Does the H5 represent it was for a Speedster or American Roadster?
Date Codes: September 10, 1952 / September 9, 1952 (self-explanatory)
Sides of the Case: 21 01 4 / 21 02 4 (with VW stamped below). Generic VW assigned Type number??
Nose Cone: A9 is stamped on the inside with a Symbol just to the right. Additionally there is a small “v” just below the A9. Meaning of A9? Could the “v” represent the guy who made the piece??

Thoughts/comments welcomed.

[Vic Skirmants]

300H5 could mean BBAB gears, but not always.
It would be the 300th 519 Porsche built.
Numbers on the side of the case; yes, VW part numbers; they changed as the years progressed.
Numbers in nose; I don't know. But it is missing the reverse idler gear shaft.
Only data points I have:
306H2 in 11994, March 1952 casting dates.
327 in 11978
330H5 in 15083 cabriolet
338H1 in 12004

[Jan Kolm]

For what it's worth, the left half was cast on 05 September 1952, second shift(?).

[Martin Benade]

Very appropriate to cast transmissions in shifts.

[Joris Koning]

Anybody know the name of the foundry? They also did the 4cam cases

[Martin Benade]

The VW trans case was not done in-house?

[Joris Koning]

The VW trans case was not done in-house?

I think the machining was but not the casting

[Bob Kierejczyk]

Jan;
You are correct.
As much as I "proofed" the narrative I did mistype the one (1) date.
Bob

[James Davies]

The 519 cases (and the 2-piece VW engine cases) were cast in-house at VW. There were 3 shifts. Pretty typical. They were making lots of cars in 1952. The 2-piece case engines have the same embossed date format with the shift on the castings.

Don't know who did the casting for the nose cone. The very first nose cones were cast in magnesium. Hard to tell if this one is mag or aluminum. It looks like it has a gold finish on the inside?

Joris is this the casting you were referring to? The nose cone?

What the H_ numbers stand for attached to the transmission numbers is a big mystery as far as I know. Nobody has a good explanation for all of them. The most interesting explanation I've heard is that some of the 519 transaxles (or assemblies inside them) were assembled by Hurth, some by Getrag. Or perhaps a key internal was made be the 2 different venders and they were assembled by Porsche at Werk II and marked as such? Not sure.

[Jon Bunin]

The most interesting explanation I've heard is that some of the 519 transaxles (or assemblies inside them) were assembled by Hurth, some by Getrag.
Or perhaps a key internal was made be the 2 different venders and they were assembled by Porsche at Werk II and marked as such? Not sure.

James, your second scenario is correct. The gears, shafts and synchromesh were made by Hurth, Getrag and ZF to Porsche's design or specifications.
The split mag housing, rear axle and clutch release parts were from Volkswagen. Other manufacturers supplied various shift components, an intermediate plate and a new front cover.
Porsche modified the Volkswagen housings, and assembled the transmissions at Werk II.
Ludvigsen said the original plan was for Getrag to build the transmissions, but their first few examples had issues, so Porsche decided to take over the assembly themselves.

Bob's front cover appears to be the early mag version. I'm not sure who did the casting, but it was a Porsche design to house the repositioned reverse gears.

[James Davies]

Thanks for the clarification Jon. Have you noticed any difference in the internals of H[1-5] vs the non-H 519 boxes where a major component was made by Hurth vs Getrag or ZF? So much that "H" would be important enough to mark as such?

[Joris Koning]

The 519 cases (and the 2-piece VW engine cases) were cast in-house at VW. There were 3 shifts. Pretty typical. They were making lots of cars in 1952. The 2-piece case engines have the same embossed date format with the shift on the castings.

Don't know who did the casting for the nose cone. The very first nose cones were cast in magnesium. Hard to tell if this one is mag or aluminum. It looks like it has a gold finish on the inside?

Joris is this the casting you were referring to? The nose cone?

What the H_ numbers stand for attached to the transmission numbers is a big mystery as far as I know. Nobody has a good explanation for all of them. The most interesting explanation I've heard is that some of the 519 transaxles (or assemblies inside them) were assembled by Hurth, some by Getrag. Or perhaps a key internal was made be the 2 different venders and they were assembled by Porsche at Werk II and marked as such? Not sure.

Hi James, yes referring to the nose cone which still has remnants of the gold chromate coating.

[Bob Kierejczyk]

James/Joris/All;

1. Definitely a magnesium Nose Cone (did the "vinegar" test today).
2. For sure the inside has a Gold Hue (see attached picture).

Bob

[Jon Bunin]

Thanks for the clarification Jon. Have you noticed any difference in the internals of H[1-5] vs the non-H 519 boxes where a major component was made by Hurth vs Getrag or ZF?
So much that "H" would be important enough to mark as such?

James, I haven't seen any factory reference for the H-codes, and I have quite a few 519 service bulletins and circular letters dating back to Sept 1952.
I've assumed that the letter H was for Hinterachse, a general Porsche term for the transmission and rear axle.

I don't think the H-codes had any relation to the gear manufacturers. It's common to find gears or synchromesh from two or all three manufacturers in one transmission.
The common assumption is that the codes referred to the gear ratios, which would include the 7/31 or 8/35 ring & pinion as well.

[Vic Skirmants]

Bob; your reverse idler gear shaft: is the end plugged somehow, instead of open?