'59 A in the Swiss Alps

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George Krompecher
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#61 Post by George Krompecher »

So the driving season is done here. For a first year driving, I went about 600 miles. Never left me stranded. Horrible driveability issues, with a rough off idle transistion. Had to use the reserve twice. Not bad for a car that sat for 16 years. Brakes zero issues, steering a tad heavy, need to clean the box.

Huge fun, can't wait to start again.

I have already cleaned the Weber carbs, that needed it quite badly. I need to drop the engine for a leaking front main seal.

Now a question: I know the engine is not the original, but I don't know what it is. It pulls quite hard in high revs, and the pistons are S. Would anyone guess a year/version?
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Greg Bryan
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#62 Post by Greg Bryan »

George - show us the number stamped on the case under the oil filter by the through-bolt, and the engine serial number. Should be able to give a fairly accurate ID with those numbers.
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George Krompecher
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#63 Post by George Krompecher »

Engine serial number is a gross re-stamp, not worth anything. It conveniently matches the CoA...
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Spencer Harris
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#64 Post by Spencer Harris »

Internal case number and engine type found here:
FACTORY NUMBERS CASE NOS.JPG
Some additional details on engine identification in this article:
FACTORY NUMBERS ARTICLE.JPG
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Greg Bryan
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#65 Post by Greg Bryan »

Looks like it is from somewhere between the 30th and 41st week of 1960 so it was installed in a '61 model year car
This list is from Harry Pellow's "The Maestro's Little Spec Book"
The number which he refers to as the Case Casting number is a sequence number assigned to each motor as it was built.
Edit - I was looking at the sequence no. that Spencer posted by mistake - it appears that your number is 44421, perhaps.
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George Krompecher
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#66 Post by George Krompecher »

Thank you for the help. I don't have Harry Pellow's book and couldn't find the reference.
Though it is a 616/1 engine, it has the domed pistons of the Super. Not complaining.

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Spencer Harris
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#67 Post by Spencer Harris »

Greg Bryan wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:49 am Edit - I was looking at the sequence no. that Spencer posted by mistake - it appears that your number is 44421, perhaps.
Sorry for the confusion; I was typing my post as George was posting his photo - see time stamps.

Using Harry's formula, 44421 comes up as early to mid-May, 1960 - depending on how many decimal places you carry. Typically the formula yields accuracy to within a couple of months.
44421.JPG
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George Krompecher
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#68 Post by George Krompecher »

Many thanks.
Suits me. It is info, to trace a history of the car The engine has been rebuilt at least once, and pulls remarkably. I am happy. I bought it to drive and work on, and I do.

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Brian R Adams
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#69 Post by Brian R Adams »

George Krompecher wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:50 am Though it is a 616/1 engine, it has the domed pistons of the Super.
By "domed" do you mean like the S.90 piston?
-
Welcome to the era of policy-based evidence-making.

Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)

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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#70 Post by George Krompecher »

Brian, I can't tell. They are not the low compression pistons of the Normal engine, that's as far as I can tell. The heads were off when I bought it for exhaust stud repairs, but I did not have a camera handy.

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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#71 Post by George Krompecher »

Today was drain the gearbox day. The copious amount of red sealant squeezing out of every seam screams "not factory" to me, and a broken stud on the left side plate does the same.
Oil is so shiny... and I found these pieces stuck to the magnet, along with about 30 bread crumb sized fragments. Yet the box is neither noisy nor crunchy.

Anyone care to venture a guess as to the fragments' origin? I have no plans to open the box this year... I'll change the main shaft and selector rod seals.
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Greg Bryan
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#72 Post by Greg Bryan »

Not a good sign - One of our trans experts could probably ID the part at a glance, but it appears to be a sheet metal part, most likely a safety plate to hold a bolt from coming loose. Actually, a failed safety plate.
A trans 1.PNG
A trans 2.PNG
Part 12 in the upper diagram is the ring and pinion bolt plate. The R and P bolts are notorious for coming loose and were changed to an updated plate that fits into a groove in an updated bolt. Considering you have observed signs of someone who is not expert - RTV oozing out is a sure sign - the old plates and bolts may have been reused and failed. When this happens, the bolts loosen and back out causing damage to the side plate as the bolt heads grind away the aluminum. all the bolts will eventually loosen and break.
Other sheet metal parts are the oil deflector, #7 above, and #30 above which holds the bearing plate on the intermediate plate.
Whatever it is, the longer you drive it, the more damage and expense will occur.
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#73 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Stop driving it! That certainly looks like a ring gear lockplate. The bolt head is in there somewhere, and can get punched through the back of the trans housing by the ring gear.

George Krompecher
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#74 Post by George Krompecher »

OK. Endoscopy and disassembly to follow.

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Martin Benade
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Re: '59 A in the Swiss Alps

#75 Post by Martin Benade »

If you are trusting the rest of the transmission it is possible to remove the differential with the transmission in place. I have done it once. It up to you whether this is a good idea or not.
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