1954 pre a

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Jules Dielen
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Re: 1954 pre a

#46 Post by Jules Dielen »

I would say with 99% certainty those numbers were not put in there by the factory.
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Re: 1954 pre a

#47 Post by Eric Lenius »

Jules Dielen wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:36 pm I would say with 99% certainty those numbers were not put in there by the factory.
Unfortunately, I would concur.

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Pascal Giai
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Re: 1954 pre a

#48 Post by Pascal Giai »

It's a replacement body from the factory...

Pascal

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Jules Dielen
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Re: 1954 pre a

#49 Post by Jules Dielen »

pascal giai wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:18 pm It's a replacement body from the factory...

Pascal
There are no known replacement bodies with that late a number. It is not even close. The latest known replacement body is 13414. There are none with a 2xxxx number
Jules

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Adam Wright
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Re: 1954 pre a

#50 Post by Adam Wright »

Jeff Kutz wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:45 am
Eric Lenius wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:43 pm
Jeff Kutz wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:04 pm VIN 23792, this is in highly legible in two places, in the front trunk normal place and in the data plate passenger side by the fuel tank.
Jeff,

Can you post a picture of the VIN stamped in the front trunk floor?
Here it is, I tried to shoot under the seats and all I came up with is springs (lots and lots of them).
I would take a torch to the VIN stamping, there may be a swipe of lead, and a number underneath.
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Mike Smith
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Re: 1954 pre a

#51 Post by Mike Smith »

Jules Dielen
There are no known replacement bodies with that late a number. It is not even close.
The latest known replacement body is 13414.
There are none with a 2xxxx number
The last one that I have a record of is 13574 - relating to a 911
(My Records are 2- years old)
Mike Smith (Essex - UK)

Jeff Kutz
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Re: 1954 pre a

#52 Post by Jeff Kutz »

Adam Wright wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:19 pm
Jeff Kutz wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:45 am
Eric Lenius wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:43 pm
Jeff Kutz wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:04 pm VIN 23792, this is in highly legible in two places, in the front trunk normal place and in the data plate passenger side by the fuel tank.
Jeff,

Can you post a picture of the VIN stamped in the front trunk floor?
Here it is, I tried to shoot under the seats and all I came up with is springs (lots and lots of them).
I would take a torch to the VIN stamping, there may be a swipe of lead, and a number underneath.
Are you thinking that there may build up of lead on top on the plate? I certainly can do that and more investigation on that plate, my concern in this is if there is a different number underneath, what does that mean to the KC plate and how did that happen??? if it was correct to this year model and production what then? Would you think this KC plate is not original? I would assume that these data plates are installed at the factory? Or the distributor? Can you get another one of these plates with the correct factory stamping??? Confused in Seattle,,, Jeff

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Re: 1954 pre a

#53 Post by Jeff Kutz »

Jules Dielen wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:36 pm I would say with 99% certainty those numbers were not put in there by the factory.
Thanks for everyone's effort on this mystery ! I was pretty new to the 356 world when I purchased this can and titled in Washington State with these numbers, so I figured everything was as it should be, hopefully something will break out. Jeff

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James Davies
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Re: 1954 pre a

#54 Post by James Davies »

Jeff, you can look on the underside of the VIN panel under the spare tire. Again, open the steering box cover plate or go in through the front with your phone camera, flash on, and get some photos. No torch needed.

Again, also look at the front underside (wood part) of the front seats, and the door hinge cover plate on driver's side. Backside at bottom. Rear engine lid will also have the last 2 digits stamped on it in the panel below the grill.

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Re: 1954 pre a

#55 Post by Jules Dielen »

Jeff Kutz wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:03 pm
Adam Wright wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:19 pm
Jeff Kutz wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:45 am
Eric Lenius wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:43 pm
Jeff Kutz wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:04 pm VIN 23792, this is in highly legible in two places, in the front trunk normal place and in the data plate passenger side by the fuel tank.
Jeff,

Can you post a picture of the VIN stamped in the front trunk floor?
Here it is, I tried to shoot under the seats and all I came up with is springs (lots and lots of them).
I would take a torch to the VIN stamping, there may be a swipe of lead, and a number underneath.
Are you thinking that there may build up of lead on top on the plate? I certainly can do that and more investigation on that plate, my concern in this is if there is a different number underneath, what does that mean to the KC plate and how did that happen??? if it was correct to this year model and production what then? Would you think this KC plate is not original? I would assume that these data plates are installed at the factory? Or the distributor? Can you get another one of these plates with the correct factory stamping??? Confused in Seattle,,, Jeff
Looking at the VIN stamp from underneath the car may show what the original VIN was. The number is stamped in by the factory, but I have a feeling your car left the factory with a different stamp than what you are seeing. James' idea of reaching in the steering box access panel is great if you do not have a way to properly get underneath the car. The other locations are also a possible indicator of at least the last 2 digits of the original VIN of your car.

If you are worried about it not matching the number on your title I would probably stop digging at this point and just live with a Pre-A anomaly.
Jules

Water pumps are for windshield washers only.

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Jules Dielen
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Re: 1954 pre a

#56 Post by Jules Dielen »

Mike Smith wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:57 am
Jules Dielen
There are no known replacement bodies with that late a number. It is not even close.
The latest known replacement body is 13414.
There are none with a 2xxxx number
The last one that I have a record of is 13574 - relating to a 911
(My Records are 2- years old)
ok, but it would be pretty labor intense to reshape a 911 body into a 356 shape :)
Jules

Water pumps are for windshield washers only.

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Mike Smith
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Re: 1954 pre a

#57 Post by Mike Smith »

Here is my recap and take on what has been said and suggested

1. Quoted Year of Car – 1954
2. The car is a Coupe
3. Stamped Chassis No. in Front Boot – 23792 (looks original although it is a little straight and clinical)
4. The Chassis No. is stamped onto what appears to be an original 2-Hole VIN. There is no `Made in Western Germany` Badge (below the plate) – (the Plate certainly looks old, original and part of the surrounding patina) – (The image does not show enough of the L/H portion to determine anything else)
5. The Owner says that 356/10 is stamped into the L/H portion of the Plate
6. The Stamped No. on the Front Hood - 66
7. The Engine No. – Not Quoted
8. The Transmission No. – 6842 H3

The only assessments that we can make are
1. That it is not a correct Porsche Chassis Number
2. The number on the hinge plate is 66 – (may be the 2 x last 2 -digits of the real chassis number, although there could have been a hood change
3. It is not a Replacement Body (there are no replacement body numbers in this range - I have them ALL)
4. It is not a car built in South Africa (It does not fit the range of Knock-down cars supplied to S.A. - I have them ALL)
5. It is not a car built in Australia (they did not build any cars in AUS)
6. The VIN Plate appears to be a 1954 or later Plate (Brett states that the Vin Plate changed from 4 x rivets to 2 x rivets in or around July /August 1954) – (We need more of the l/H VIN. Plate to determine more information)
7. It is not an Engine Number (there were no 5-digit) Engine Numbers commencing 23 – the last number in the 20 series run of engines was 22999 – this number was used in 1957) – (Porsche did, on occasions, build engines after the end of a series but it is stretching things too far to assume that they built another 792 and if they did it would have been in 1957/58)
@@@@@
From my records I have the following Transmission Numbers and Build Dates (not a selling date)
10th August 1955 - 6825 H2
12th August 1955 - 6897 H5

Our friends Transmission fits between the two dates but Porsche did not build the cars in sequence so the only thing that we can deduce is that it was a car built between July 1955 and September 1955 - (This assumes that the transmission is original to the car) If it is (?) - it is a 55 car not a 54)

Bill Block has posted a record of transmission 6859 fitted in a Continental dated the 13th September 1955(probably a selling Date) – Note that it is a 55 Car

Just for information - the Summer Holidays in 1955 were - Close down Friday evening on the 12th August and opening Monday morning on the 29th August.

An engine number may help, assuming that it is original to the car and all 3 pieces match.

Happy to be shot down
Mike Smith (Essex - UK)

Eric Lenius
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Re: 1954 pre a

#58 Post by Eric Lenius »

Mike Smith wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:14 pm Here is my recap and take on what has been said and suggested

1. Quoted Year of Car – 1954
2. The car is a Coupe
3. Stamped Chassis No. in Front Boot – 23792 (looks original although it is a little straight and clinical)
4. The Chassis No. is stamped onto what appears to be an original 2-Hole VIN. There is no `Made in Western Germany` Badge (below the plate) – (the Plate certainly looks old, original and part of the surrounding patina) – (The image does not show enough of the L/H portion to determine anything else)
5. The Owner says that 356/10 is stamped into the L/H portion of the Plate
6. The Stamped No. on the Front Hood - 66
7. The Engine No. – Not Quoted
8. The Transmission No. – 6842 H3

The only assessments that we can make are
1. That it is not a correct Porsche Chassis Number
2. The number on the hinge plate is 66 – (may be the 2 x last 2 -digits of the real chassis number, although there could have been a hood change
3. It is not a Replacement Body (there are no replacement body numbers in this range - I have them ALL)
4. It is not a car built in South Africa (It does not fit the range of Knock-down cars supplied to S.A. - I have them ALL)
5. It is not a car built in Australia (they did not build any cars in AUS)
6. The VIN Plate appears to be a 1954 or later Plate (Brett states that the Vin Plate changed from 4 x rivets to 2 x rivets in or around July /August 1954) – (We need more of the l/H VIN. Plate to determine more information)
7. It is not an Engine Number (there were no 5-digit) Engine Numbers commencing 23 – the last number in the 20 series run of engines was 22999 – this number was used in 1957) – (Porsche did, on occasions, build engines after the end of a series but it is stretching things too far to assume that they built another 792 and if they did it would have been in 1957/58)
@@@@@
From my records I have the following Transmission Numbers and Build Dates (not a selling date)
10th August 1955 - 6825 H2
12th August 1955 - 6897 H5

Our friends Transmission fits between the two dates but Porsche did not build the cars in sequence so the only thing that we can deduce is that it was a car built between July 1955 and September 1955 - (This assumes that the transmission is original to the car) If it is (?) - it is a 55 car not a 54)

Bill Block has posted a record of transmission 6859 fitted in a Continental dated the 13th September 1955(probably a selling Date) – Note that it is a 55 Car

Just for information - the Summer Holidays in 1955 were - Close down Friday evening on the 12th August and opening Monday morning on the 29th August.

An engine number may help, assuming that it is original to the car and all 3 pieces match.

Happy to be shot down
Aaah,

The VIN stamp in the trunk floor does not appear to be original.

356/10 was stamped on another plate. This car is stamped 356/1500

No engine number has been provided. as an assist, I can tell you that it is a later engine (I've seen the car when it was parked in front of a local repair shop. at least it was described to me as being a later engine.).

Wasn't 66 on the hood rather than the hinge plate?

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Re: 1954 pre a

#59 Post by Alfred Knittel »

I am not sure the gas gage is a 54 looks more like an A type. They changed in 55
1954 coup
1959 Cab
1959 super coup
1970 240z first year
1971 240z

Jeff Kutz
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Re: 1954 pre a

#60 Post by Jeff Kutz »

Eric Lenius wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:37 pm
Mike Smith wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:14 pm Here is my recap and take on what has been said and suggested

1. Quoted Year of Car – 1954
2. The car is a Coupe
3. Stamped Chassis No. in Front Boot – 23792 (looks original although it is a little straight and clinical)
4. The Chassis No. is stamped onto what appears to be an original 2-Hole VIN. There is no `Made in Western Germany` Badge (below the plate) – (the Plate certainly looks old, original and part of the surrounding patina) – (The image does not show enough of the L/H portion to determine anything else)
5. The Owner says that 356/10 is stamped into the L/H portion of the Plate
6. The Stamped No. on the Front Hood - 66
7. The Engine No. – Not Quoted
8. The Transmission No. – 6842 H3

The only assessments that we can make are
1. That it is not a correct Porsche Chassis Number
2. The number on the hinge plate is 66 – (may be the 2 x last 2 -digits of the real chassis number, although there could have been a hood change
3. It is not a Replacement Body (there are no replacement body numbers in this range - I have them ALL)
4. It is not a car built in South Africa (It does not fit the range of Knock-down cars supplied to S.A. - I have them ALL)
5. It is not a car built in Australia (they did not build any cars in AUS)
6. The VIN Plate appears to be a 1954 or later Plate (Brett states that the Vin Plate changed from 4 x rivets to 2 x rivets in or around July /August 1954) – (We need more of the l/H VIN. Plate to determine more information)
7. It is not an Engine Number (there were no 5-digit) Engine Numbers commencing 23 – the last number in the 20 series run of engines was 22999 – this number was used in 1957) – (Porsche did, on occasions, build engines after the end of a series but it is stretching things too far to assume that they built another 792 and if they did it would have been in 1957/58)
@@@@@
From my records I have the following Transmission Numbers and Build Dates (not a selling date)
10th August 1955 - 6825 H2
12th August 1955 - 6897 H5

Our friends Transmission fits between the two dates but Porsche did not build the cars in sequence so the only thing that we can deduce is that it was a car built between July 1955 and September 1955 - (This assumes that the transmission is original to the car) If it is (?) - it is a 55 car not a 54)

Bill Block has posted a record of transmission 6859 fitted in a Continental dated the 13th September 1955(probably a selling Date) – Note that it is a 55 Car

Just for information - the Summer Holidays in 1955 were - Close down Friday evening on the 12th August and opening Monday morning on the 29th August.

An engine number may help, assuming that it is original to the car and all 3 pieces match.

Happy to be shot down
Aaah,

The VIN stamp in the trunk floor does not appear to be original.

356/10 was stamped on another plate. This car is stamped 356/1500

No engine number has been provided. as an assist, I can tell you that it is a later engine (I've seen the car when it was parked in front of a local repair shop. at least it was described to me as being a later engine.).

Wasn't 66 on the hood rather than the hinge plate?
Thanks Eric,As I stated the KG plate took me three days to degrease with a tooth brush to get to this level, I would be surprised if it is not original with the car, so assuming that it is, the question would be a how did it get the # 23792 and there is no question that this is a bent windshield coupe.. Eric, as you live close to the car, perhaps come out and take a look?? Thanks Jeff

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