356A Wiper Arms

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John Chatley
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#16 Post by John Chatley »

Hello Tom and others,
Sorry to jump in this so late but I have to add a couple of observations:
1. Neil's Book documents a Reutter built coupe delivered in late April, 1958. It would be a stretch to say that everything you see would apply
to a Drauz built Convertible D Aug., 1958 thru Aug., 1959.
2. Based on what I've seen on original Convertible Ds, a lot if things changed in that model year and I have to agree with Brett Johnson that many Ds had the "rounded" version of the wiper arm, but they also could have had the earlier rectangular version. I would add that it SEEMS that the rounded version was placed on more of the later built Ds and Roadsters. To say that ALL or MOST Conv. Ds, Roadsters and late T2 As came only with the rectangular arm would be incorrect.
3. I have emailed a member who has an old SWF wiper arm catalog asking to see the full 1958-59 pages, however I have not received anything back at this point.
For whatever its worth, if I owned an early-mid build T2, I would use the rectangular arm, if I owned a late built T2 Conv. D, I could place either style on that car, tending toward the rounded version at the end of the model run. I am still trying to learn more about this and other parts on the Convertible Ds.
John Chatley
Last edited by John Chatley on Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#17 Post by John Chatley »

Additionally, I forgot to mention that the earliest Convertible Ds had the pickle fork SWF style wiper arms as noted by Brett Johnson in his new Authenticity IV book, pg. 72 and noted in the SWF catalog in June, 1958 before the D's were released in August/Sept., 1958. See attached photo courtesy of Jerry Haussler. Haussler also noted that the hook style SWF arm was mentioned in their catalog starting in Feb., 1959.
Possibly someone has an old Bosch catalog that help would clear up those styles and dates.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#18 Post by Jon Bunin »

John Chatley wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:47 pm 2. Based on what I've seen on original Convertible Ds, a lot if things changed in that model year and I have to agree with Brett Johnson that many Ds had the "rounded" version of the wiper arm, but they also could have had the earlier rectangular version. I would add that it SEEMS that the rounded version was placed on more of the later built Ds and Roadsters. To say that ALL or MOST Conv. Ds, Roadsters and late T2 As came only with the rectangular arm would be incorrect.
John, my first several photos show the correct SWF wiper arms for early Roadsters, and I believe all Roadsters including the T6 models. It's possible these were used on late Conv Ds as well.
There have been several past threads on this subject.
These have a distinct "shepherd's crook" hook, and are marked L and R. The parts manuals indicate that Roadsters had SWF wiper systems, and had different part numbers for the left and right arms.
The wiper system part numbers did not change for Roadsters, from the beginning through to the last T6 models.

The period Roadster photos are of my Sept 59 car, taken for a Panorama article published in April 1960.

The last photo is a box of SWF arms that Stoddard used to sell as replacements for all 59 through 62 models. The box is marked VW 1300/1500 Karmann ab August 1967.
Are these what are being referred to as the "rounded" version? These were not original to a 356 Porsche. If not, can someone please post or indicate a photo of the "rounded" SWF wiper arms that were supposedly original to a 356?
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#19 Post by Steve Douglas »

This subject has come up several times over the years an I have never seen a definitive answer. My experience with late A coupes, this the bases are the SWF square type like show by Peter Stilen. The early 58 coupe had the set screw blade attachment to the straight arm. The late As, that is after April of 1959, had the same base but had pickle forks, there are two local cars, both factory tourist delivered in July & August of 59 that originally had pickle forks. The factory issued a Tech Bulletin directing that all of the pickle fork wiper blades be replaces with the "Shepard's Hook" style arms and blades.
The photos show the early Shepard's Hook painted black vs the newer and current style end. Then there is the end of the pickle fork and the spring retaining clip that was used for the first style Shepard s Hook, and then the blades with the later/current style plastic retainer and the metal spring retainer of the 60's.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#20 Post by Jon Bunin »

Steve Douglas wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:26 amThe photos show the early Shepard's Hook painted black vs the newer and current style end. Then there is the end of the pickle fork and the spring retaining clip that was used for the first style Shepard s Hook, and then the blades with the later/current style plastic retainer and the metal spring retainer of the 60's.
Steve, the metal retaining clip has a small tab that snaps into an opening in the wiper arm.
The SWF "shepherd's crook" wiper arms did not have such openings, and did not use a retaining clip to hold the blade.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#21 Post by John Chatley »

Jon,
I respect your opinion and the documentation of your early 1960 Roadster, but to say that every T-5 Roadster had the same SWF wiper arms might not be accurate.
When talking about 356 Porsches, I subscribe to the old adage: "Never say Never! And Never say Always!" I think this would especially apply to the easily replaced wiper blades and arms as they wore out quicker than light bulbs.
I am not a "Roadster follower"; I can barely keep up with the ongoing research of the Convertible D. I would have to defer to Johnson's latest Authenticity IV book, pages 72-73 in which he refers to the "rounded arm": "The Roadster had the SWF 2400 arm with a unique hinging cap, which was also fitted to some 356A coupes and cabriolets. Both had 260mm blades and 240mm arms." And: "No special mention of what was used on the Convertible Ds was made, but the wipers used on the later Roadster appear to have been identical." He also shows two photos of that unique hinging cap.

I can indicate that my own very original, matching numbers and dates everywhere, later built Convertible D #86519, had these hinging cap arms on it, however
it would be presumptuous of me to say these arms are original from 1959.
Finding some original 1958-59 photos that we could blow up to determine the wiper arm styles is going to be difficult. Also, I indicated that I'm fairly certain that the earliest Ds had the pickle fork style, then later Ds had the SWF rectangular style with the hook as you mention and documented by the Feb., '59 Service Bulletin, and then I believe the later built Ds had the hinging cap style as they were fazed in. As with many 356 parts, as changes were made, the key is "Fazed In", even with the changeover to your new T-5 model in Sept., 1959.
Possibly some members can provide vintage photos showing the "rounded" hinging cap style wiper arm from 1959. I'll keep looking.
Many thanks for your input.
John
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#22 Post by Jon Bunin »

John Chatley wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:35 am Jon, I respect your opinion and the documentation of your early 1960 Roadster, but to say that every T-5 Roadster had the same SWF wiper arms might not be accurate.
When talking about 356 Porsches, I subscribe to the old adage: "Never say Never! And Never say Always!"
John, I was not implying any certainty about this beyond early Roadsters.
I said "I believe" in regard to all Roadsters, and "It's possible" in regard to late Conv Ds...
Jon Bunin wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:56 am John, my first several photos show the correct SWF wiper arms for early Roadsters, and I believe all Roadsters including the T6 models. It's possible these were used on late Conv Ds as well.
While the title subject is 356A wiper arms, it's been stated a few times now that Roadsters had a "rounded" version that carried over from the Conv D.
I still don't understand what's being referred to as a "rounded base", a "rectangular base" and a "unique hinging cap", and wish that someone would post or point to images of these features.

Here's another series of early Roadster photos, from the March 1960 issue of Road & Track magazine. The car is 86832, the 2nd Roadster by serial number, while mine is the 40th Roadster by serial number.
Unfortunately the resolution isn't very good, but I think they compare well to my earlier photo above. Both cars were built in September 1959, shortly after the Conv D production ended.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#23 Post by Jon Bunin »

Steve Douglas wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:26 amMy experience with late A coupes, this the bases are the SWF square type like show by Peter Stilen. The early 58 coupe had the set screw blade attachment to the straight arm. The late As, that is after April of 1959, had the same base but had pickle forks, there are two local cars, both factory tourist delivered in July & August of 59 that originally had pickle forks. The factory issued a Tech Bulletin directing that all of the pickle fork wiper blades be replaces with the "Shepard's Hook" style arms and blades.
Steve, I have copies of all the factory service bulletins issued in 1959, and only found 2 relating to windshield wiper systems. You might be referring to the 2nd bulletin below.
The Bosch systems introduced in April 59 obviously did not have SWF "pickle fork" arms.

Bulletin 15/59, dated June 59 with an effective date of April 59, regarding the introduction of new Bosch wiper assemblies to the Coupé and Cabriolet/Hardtop models.
Bulletin 49/59, dated December 59, regarding the discontinuance earlier SWF wiper arms and blades as spare parts for the 356A model cars.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#24 Post by John Chatley »

Jon,
I've attached two photos of what seems to be called the "rounded base" or "hinge style" wiper arms.
The first photo compares what I've seen on some of the shorter VW arms and the longer Conv. D one.
The 2nd photo shows the manufacturer's markings on the bottoms of the bases.
You can see the Hinge style one on Pg. 73 of Johnson's new Authenticity IV book.

The "rectangular" base one is the one that you have on your Roadster.
Both have the hook mounts for the wiper arm.
John
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#25 Post by Jon Bunin »

John, thanks for clarifying the terms and posting the photos above.

Everything I'm seeing in the Volkswagen world indicates that the unbranded arms are reproductions, which are plentiful and inexpensive.
I cannot find any period photos of that style wiper arm on any 356A or T5B vehicle. That design, in varying lengths, was most common on later 60s Volkswagens.
Tom Tate wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:36 pm Trying to assist a local member verify the correct wiper arms on his '59 A...Johnsons books (all of them ) indicate that the rounded unit appeared on the Conv D and Roadster and "some 356A coupes and Cabs" .Both Stoddard and Sierra Madre sites seem to indicate that the rounded base arm was also used in '59... I thought that the rounded version didn't began until the T5.
Tom's original post inquired about correct wiper arms for a '59 A, and said that "the rounded unit" supposedly appeared on the Conv D and Roadster and "some 356A coupes and cabs".
The "rounded unit" was certainly not original to T5 Roadsters, and I seriously doubt they were original to any 356A or B vehicle.
I suspect the case for their originality is all anecdotal, convenient, and in some cases confused by what's currently being offered as replacements.

I'd like to see some clear period evidence of their originality.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#26 Post by Joris Koning »

Perhaps this will help put an end to this discussion. Straight from the '62 SWF spare parts catalog
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#27 Post by Martin Benade »

For a little help deciphering that, basically there is only one style, in l and r versions for any 59 Porsche?
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#28 Post by Jon Bunin »

Thank you, Joris.

The wiper arms are the same as I posted pictures of for the early B Roadster models, which were first produced in Sept 1959.
Also note that there's no additional clip to hold the blade.

Martin, the SWF catalog indicates that these parts were supplied "for Porsche Typ: 644 as of February 1959", so only for cars produced as of or after that date.
But as of April 59 the Coupé and Cabriolet/Hardtop models were supplied with Bosch wiper systems.
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#29 Post by John Chatley »

Great to see this SWF catalog, Joris !! This coincides with the Feb. 1959 Porsche Service Bulletin as mentioned above.
With all due respect, as I indicated previously, these SWF wiper arms were probably used throughout the Conv. D model year with a possible phase-in of the hinge style later in the model year, at least on the Convertible D model.

This catalog indicates "as of Feb. 1959" when many changes were being made(Dec., '58 to Feb. '59) to the Ds as well as coupes and cabriolets...ie: bumper heights, front turn signal mounts, door wedge eliminated, phase in of the new 716 trans, etc..

Does anyone have a SWF and a Bosch catalog towards the end of the 1959 model year, say June-Aug., 1959?
Or possibly catalogs from Sept-Dec.,1959 for the new 356B T-5s?

Also, note my 2nd photo above with the hinge style wiper arm with no manufacturer's mark...do we just dismiss this as an
aftermarket arm, or was there another manufacturer that Porsche could have purchased these from?
Does anyone have an idea(proof) where those came from? Where's the fellow who put these on the 356s in 1959? ;)
John
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Re: 356A Wiper Arms

#30 Post by Joris Koning »

John, I am with Jon on this one. The " rounded end" arms you show are a later item and I believe never used on the D's from the factory. I checked my SWF catalogue and the only car this type of arm is listed for are some European Fords. I'd be happily proven wrong but factory pictures showing the rounded arms but do not think you will find any.

I have another SWF catalogue which I believe is a '59 somewhere but for the life of me can not find it.
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