Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

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Jon Warshawsky
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#16 Post by Jon Warshawsky »

Michael Doyle wrote:
Jon Warshawsky wrote:Did these seats exist? And if so what colors were used?

The original owner of #82191 told the restorer working on my car that it came with beige corduroy inserts in black vinyl Speedster seats. The original material is long gone, and the COA is largely blank.

I have never seen this on an original Speedster, but then again I've only seen one Speedster with its original (tired red vinyl) upholstery in place.

I have asked two 356 veterans who have suggested that it was rare in the U.S. and may have been strictly a GT option.
Hi Jon,

I suspect that the original owner of the car told you correct information...that the Speedster seats had corduroy inserts in them. Below is from my notes of the Ruetter Book build codes from the mid 50's forward:

704 - Tan Corduroy / CS704 - Cord Samt Tan

I believe the "Cord" insert was a preferred option by many of the private and factory racers in the day using Speedster seats, most likely due to it offering less sliding around in corners.

I've seen Tan and Black Corduroy inserts in the Speedster seats. You may want to consider keeping the original description of the seats to go with restoration of your car. I've included a picture of an original seat below to take a look at. -MD-
Carrera GT Seat I.jpg
Michael,

THANK YOU, this is exactly what I was looking for.

My car was bought to race in the northeastern U.S., so it makes sense that it would have been configured this way.

Steve Heinrichs has shared the recorded build codes, and while they don't show a '704' for mine it is possible (?) that the seat material might have been swapped either during production or perhaps by the selling dealer.

I certainly don't want to restore the car to a configuration that didn't exist.
Jon Warshawsky
San Diego
1956 Speedster #82191

Bruce Baker
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#17 Post by Bruce Baker »

Michael's picture triggered a memory of my B GS/GT from the early '70s and it had the black vinyl and grayish tan corduroy covered aluminum 'Speedster' seats. (I wonder where that 356 is now?......sigh......)
 

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Michael Doyle
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#18 Post by Michael Doyle »

Jon Warshawsky wrote:
Michael Doyle wrote:
Jon Warshawsky wrote:Did these seats exist? And if so what colors were used?

The original owner of #82191 told the restorer working on my car that it came with beige corduroy inserts in black vinyl Speedster seats. The original material is long gone, and the COA is largely blank.

I have never seen this on an original Speedster, but then again I've only seen one Speedster with its original (tired red vinyl) upholstery in place.

I have asked two 356 veterans who have suggested that it was rare in the U.S. and may have been strictly a GT option.
Hi Jon,

I suspect that the original owner of the car told you correct information...that the Speedster seats had corduroy inserts in them. Below is from my notes of the Ruetter Book build codes from the mid 50's forward:

704 - Tan Corduroy / CS704 - Cord Samt Tan

I believe the "Cord" insert was a preferred option by many of the private and factory racers in the day using Speedster seats, most likely due to it offering less sliding around in corners.

I've seen Tan and Black Corduroy inserts in the Speedster seats. You may want to consider keeping the original description of the seats to go with restoration of your car. I've included a picture of an original seat below to take a look at. -MD-
Carrera GT Seat I.jpg
Michael,

THANK YOU, this is exactly what I was looking for.

My car was bought to race in the northeastern U.S., so it makes sense that it would have been configured this way.

Steve Heinrichs has shared the recorded build codes, and while they don't show a '704' for mine it is possible (?) that the seat material might have been swapped either during production or perhaps by the selling dealer.

I certainly don't want to restore the car to a configuration that didn't exist.
Jon...on the Ruetter build code line they would simply write "CS" towards the beginning part if Corduroy was used in combination with vinyl material for the seats. My best to you with your Speedster project. -MD-

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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#19 Post by Jim Breazeale »

Michael

Aren't Carrera GT seats slightly different than Speedster seats?

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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#20 Post by Carl Zapffe »

Hey, Vic! I think that you've solved it! :D :D :wink: Pepita is merely Houndstooth reverse side mounted! :wink: The installer had too many beers for lunch, so his boss told him that he was going to kick him in the Pepita if it ever happened again... Or maybe he had a young son named Pepita, who didn't get his birthday present because a customer's seats were mounted this way? I mean, it's possible, right? Maybe the customer liked the reverse Houndstooth mounting and then they started calling it "Pepita" in honor of the first screwup. :?:
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Barry Brisco
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#21 Post by Barry Brisco »

Jim Breazeale wrote:Aren't Carrera GT seats slightly different than Speedster seats?
All I can contribute to this is to quote from Brett Johnson's book, which may be helpful. Discussing Speedster seats, he says:
Brett Johnson wrote:This seat was standard in Speedsters and occasionally turned up in other models. Late GTs were aluminum rather than steel, for lighter weight. Later seats tended to be a bit wider.
So the implication is that there was a "GT" seat that was very similar to the Speedster seat, but in aluminum and wider. No mention of any upholstery differences, unfortunately.
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#22 Post by Bruce Baker »

Barry Brisco wrote:
Jim Breazeale wrote:Aren't Carrera GT seats slightly different than Speedster seats?
All I can contribute to this is to quote from Brett Johnson's book, which may be helpful. Discussing Speedster seats, he says:
Brett Johnson wrote:This seat was standard in Speedsters and occasionally turned up in other models. Late GTs were aluminum rather than steel, for lighter weight. Later seats tended to be a bit wider.
So the implication is that there was a "GT" seat that was very similar to the Speedster seat, but in aluminum and wider. No mention of any upholstery differences, unfortunately.
Let's not jump to conclusions. I'm home and not 'with book' at the moment, but someone should check the numbers on the seat listings. (HA! I think that as owners aged, their butts grew wider and Porsche accommodated by widening the seats on the later models.) My T-5 B's version was a Speedster seat made from aluminum, just as reproductions may be bought today.

A 'bit wider' by Brett is a general impression, not necessarily accompanied by a part number change to show a Factory deviation. It's worth a look. I think the Speedster-esque seats continued into the early 900 series cars, and those could have been wider/widened.

I vaguely remember that some steel Speedster seats I uncovered had been cut and overlapping strips were used to make the shell wider, but I did not know then ('70s) if they were 'original' or someones personal preference and modification, nor what track mounting changes were made.

What I do remember is that the original posting here was about corduroy center panels being 'originally available' on Speedster seats and now the answer is 'yes,' especially with Michael's picture.
 

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Barry Brisco
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#23 Post by Barry Brisco »

Bruce Baker wrote:What I do remember is that the original posting here was about corduroy center panels being 'originally available' on Speedster seats and now the answer is 'yes,' especially with Michael's picture.
Or is Michael showing a photo of a "GT" seat and not a "Speedster" seat? His photo caption says "Carrera GT Seat".

Thanks,

Barry

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Charlie White
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#24 Post by Charlie White »

From the parts books.............

356-A Parts Book, Main Group 7, Illustration 64, page 511 & 512.

644.521.001.40/644.521.001.41 (Speedster) Folding seat, left, complete, leatherette, with wooden frame and 2 seat rails-state color.

644.521.001.50/644.521.001.51 (Speedster) Folding seat, left, complete, genuine leather, with wooden frame and 2 seat rails - state color.

644.521.001.52 (Speedster) Folding seat, left, comlplete, with leatherette-corduroy lining combination, wooden frame and 2 seat rails ONLY FOR CARRERA GT. Factory's words!

644.521.002.40/644.521.002.41 (Speedster) Folding seat, right, complete, with artificial leather lining, wooden frame and 2 seat rails - state color.

644.521.002.50/644.521.002.51 (Speedster) Folding seat, right, complete, genuine leather, wooden frame and 2 seat railsl - state color.

644.521.002.52 (Speedster) Folding seat, right, comlete, with leatherette-corduroy lining combination, wooden frame and 2 seat rails (ONLY FOR CARRERA GT). Factory's words!

644.521.061.40 (Speedster) Seat Bucket, left, untrimmed - not Carrera GT
644.521.062.40 (Speedster) Seat Bucket, Right, untrimmed - not Carrera GT

644.521.062.50 (Speedster, Coupe) Seat Bucket - Aluminum execution with support, without frame left or right - for Carrera GT.

356-B Parts Book, Main Group 7, Illustration 7/1a, page 1 & 2

644.521.001.55 (Carrera GT) Bucket Seat left complete, leatherette lining or leatherette and corduroy combined.

644.521.002.55 (Carrera GT) Bucket Seat right complete, leatherette lining or leatherette and corduroy combined.

644.521.061.50 (Carrera GT) bucket for seat left or right (light alloy)

This is what the parts books say........draw your own conclusions!

CW
Last edited by Charlie White on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jon Warshawsky
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#25 Post by Jon Warshawsky »

Charlie White wrote:From the parts books.............

356-A Parts Book, Main Group 7, Illustration 64, page 511 & 512.

644.521.001.40/644.521.001.41 (Speedster) Folding seat, left, complete, leatherette, with wooden frame and 2 seat rails-state color.

644.521.001.50/644.521.001.51 (Speedster) Folding seat, left, complete, genuine leather, with wooden frame and 2 seat rails - state color.

644.521.001.52 (Speedster) Folding seat, left, comlplete, with leatherette-corduroy lining combination, wooden frame and 2 seat rails
ONLY FOR CARRERA GT.

644.521.002.40/644.521.002.41 (Speedster) Folding seat, right, complete, with artificial leather lining, wooden frame and 2 seat rails - state color.

644.521.002.50/644.521.002.51 (Speedster) Folding seat, right, complete, genuine leather, wooden frame and 2 seat railsl - state color.

644.521.002.52 (Speedster) Folding seat, right, comlete, with leatherette-corduroy lining combination, wooden frame and 2 seat rails
(ONLY FOR CARRERA GT).

644.521.061.40 (Speedster) Seat Bucket, left, untrimmed - not Carrera GT
644.521.062.40 (Speedster) Seat Bucket, Right, untrimmed - not Carrera GT

644.521.062.50 (Speedster, Coupe) Seat Bucket - Aluminum execution with support, without frame left or right - for Carrera GT....

This is what the parts books say........draw your own conclusions!

CW
This is interesting for a couple of reasons. First, it suggests that vinyl+corduroy was offered only in Carrera GTs, but it also lists "genuine leather", when I've read that vinyl was the only original material offered.
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janos szarvadi
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#26 Post by janos szarvadi »

IMG_4352.jpg
110-1016_IMG.jpg
 Real Carreras  have 8 cams

Jon Warshawsky
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#27 Post by Jon Warshawsky »

janos szarvadi wrote:
IMG_4352.jpg
110-1016_IMG.jpg
1. That is a beautiful car.

2. I see no Carrera badging, so my conclusion from these photos is that a pushrod Speedster came with corduroy inserts (unless these seats deviate from original.)
Jon Warshawsky
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Michael Doyle
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#28 Post by Michael Doyle »

Jim Breazeale wrote:Michael

Aren't Carrera GT seats slightly different than Speedster seats?

Regards
Jim,

In early 1957 (March-April), the first Carrera GT's used the regular all steel Speedster seat shells. Not "all" had Corduroy inserts...but many (most) of them did. And the GT upholstery was finished off a little different at the top of the seat...as it rolled up and over the upper edge.

As time and the model progressed, the GT Speedster seat later evolved in width and the use of aluminum.... -Michael-

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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#29 Post by Chad Comeau »

Here are some pictures of Speedster seats in a Carrera GT Speedster, and yes they have Corduroy inserts in them!
Interior Seat.jpg
GT Speedster Seat.jpg
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Re: Speedsters and corduroy seat inserts?

#30 Post by Jim Breazeale »

It seems to me that Michael's picture of a Carrera GT seat just does more to confuse the issue. The original question was whether "Speedster" seats came with cord. Charlie's posting of part numbers seems to suggest that Speedsters did not come with cord. We have a picture of a silver Speedster with cord seats. All that is is a picture of a Speedster with cord seats. It does nothing to answer the question. Bruce, the seats in your B car most likely, were Carrera GT seats and would have come with cord. There were a run of Carrera GT speedsters in 59 that had pushrod motors. All of them were Silver and the picture of the silver Speedster could be of none of those. It seems to me that we are no closer to the answer than when we started. This stuff is kind of fun.

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