New California classic car survey

[Marcus van Bers]

From a recent Globe article:

Electric vehicles can catch fire if they are inundated by saltwater, so owners who live in the path of a major storm like Hurricane Helene should take precautions and prepare for the possibility that they’ll be unable to charge their cars during a power outage.

What can EV owners do?

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis urged EV owners this week to get their vehicles to higher ground before Hurricane Helene arrived. Although the problem is rare, there have been a number of instances in recent years of electric vehicles igniting after hurricanes.

Keeping electric vehicles out of standing water is the best way to avoid the possibility of a fire.

Tesla offers similar advice about avoiding letting its vehicles become submerged if at all possible, but if that does happen the carmaker suggests towing the vehicle at least 50 feet away from structures or anything combustible until it can be inspected by a mechanic.

The best way to get through a power outage is to follow the same kind of advice your dad may have given you about keeping your gas tank full to make sure you wouldn’t be stranded. Keeping your electric vehicle charged offers the most flexibility.

Of course, electric vehicle owners won’t be able to charge their cars during a power outage, so they may need to watch how much they drive. But EVs aren’t any worse off than conventional vehicles because gas stations can’t pump fuel in a power outage either.

How common are EV fires after flooding?

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has been researching this problem since it was first seen after Hurricane Sandy struck the Northeast in 2012. But no one seems to have detailed statistics on just how often this happens.

Two years ago, Hurricane Ian compromised the batteries of as may as 5,000 electric vehicles, and 36 of them caught fire.

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Several more electric vehicles caught fire in Florida last year after Hurricane Idalia, although that storm was weaker than Ian. Researchers at NHTSA speculated that it may have also helped that more people were aware of the problem and moved their vehicles to higher ground before that storm.

But it happens often enough that Florida officials were worried about the possibility before Hurricane Helene arrived because they were expecting a potentially devastating storm surge up to 20 feet deep in the northwestern part of Florida.

These fires do seem to be linked specifically to saltwater because salt can conduct electricity. Similar problems haven’t been reported after freshwater flooding in California that was driven by heavy rains early this year.

What causes EVs to catch fire?

Electric vehicles with lithium ion batteries can catch fire if the batteries short circuit and start to heat up. Tom Barth with the National Transportation Safety Board said that if the heat starts to spread between different cells in the battery back it can cause a chain reaction called thermal runaway.

“If the saltwater is able to bridge the gap between the positive and negative terminals of battery, then it can cause a short circuit,” said Barth, who is chief of the special investigations branch of the NTSB’s office of highway safety.

Carmakers do design their batteries to try to prevent this problem. There are often separations or insulation barriers between different cells in the battery pack, and manufacturers take steps to keep moisture out. But they do have to include ways for the batteries to vent heat.

“Where it begins to be a problem is if you have the batteries submerged in standing water. That’s where it starts to overcome the moisture seals in the battery,” Barth said.

Sometimes electric vehicles can catch fire long after the floodwaters have receded because even after the water evaporates salt that can conduct electricity may be left behind. So it’s important to have them checked out if they are submerged.

“It’s not like every vehicle that gets flooded is therefore going to ignite and catch fire,” Barth said.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it is working to improve battery safety as officials learn more about the problems. The agency has proposed updating some of the safety requirements for electric vehicle batteries to reduce the risks.

[Marcus van Bers]

And yesterday a lithium battery fire in the port of Montreal. 15000kg of batteries in a container caught fire.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -1.7336652

[C J Murray]

Funny how our genius government doesn't give big tax credits on Porsche ICE vehicles. Maybe that is because people actually WANT them.

[Harlan Halsey]

There was a time when our government decided to regulate an aspect of citizens behavior. The issue was studied carefully and considered nationwide. Congress acted. The regulation did untold damage for about 15 years until it was repealed to universal acclaim. It was called "Prohibition". Now as then, the do Gooders know what is best for us.

[C J Murray]

There was a time when our government decided to regulate an aspect of citizens behavior. The issue was studied carefully and considered nationwide. Congress acted. The regulation did untold damage for about 15 years until it was repealed to universal acclaim. It was called "Prohibition". Now as then, the do Gooders know what is best for us.

Correct.

The story that Marcus posted from Montreal adds another frightening dimension. When the batteries catch fire in a populated area it may harm people in a similar way as the pollution from the 9/11 attack. People are still dying today from the pollution from that horrible event. The possibility should be studied.

[Steve Douglas]

Back to the original topic: that of the possible changes in Classic Cars Survey regulations in California. I live on the southern edge of the Silicon Valley where a big number of people drive electric cars, Teslas out number Fords and Chevys, Electric BMW and MB SUVs and sedan are popping up more, slightly less common are the Porsche Taycan, Rivian trucks and SUVs, and sightings of 2or3 Lucid and Vinfast per outing is also common. Are we headed for an all electric world? Legislation to eliminate natural gas appliances and heating in new construction is being attempted.
I have been wondering if this trend is affecting the ICE luxury/spots/exotic car market. I realize that what I am seeing is probably not a nationwide trend, being we have the “California Look at What I Drive” factor, and the "tech people" needing the latest in technology to drive isolated and disconnected from the surrounding world.
Driving by the Porsche dealers lately I have seen a big increase in 911, Cayman, Boxster/718 for sale on the lots, like 20-25, yes they are used, but still it wasn’t long ago that all they had were SUVs and Panamera. I know that to get a new 911 is a wait of 2+ years or to pay a huge markup.
Last week I was in So Cal, and the Porsche dealers down there also are flooded with almost new Porsche “sports cars”. The weekend traffic on PCH is full of unique and special cars, and Porsche seem to be just another car, compared to the Rimac, Bugatti, McLaren, Lambos, Ferrari, other unknown super cars that seem to be everywhere. Is Porsche loosing its "must have" factor to the rarer and more expensive exotics? Changes in demographics? or is it just a case of too much money....
I stopped in to two Porsche dealers, tried to pick up some crush washers and o-rings for an upcoming oil change on the 993. One dealer said they don’t have a staffed parts counter, and do not stock many parts, especially for antique cars. The other dealer also didn’t have a staffed parts counter, but a guy in the back room of the shop. They order parts as needed and only stock a few parts for the newer cars, such as oil filters. Having parts in stock is huge cost, plus adding in a staff person to man the counter, to support the few who do their own work. Those that do work on their cars or the independent shops go to other sources for parts. Another huge factor is that the new housing taking over the metro areas of California have HOAs with CCRs that prohibit auto repair at home, even washing your car in the driveway is prohibited.
From what I have heard from others that most other brands are also eliminating OTC parts services and have very few parts in stock. Being that most parts are basically unavailable without a 2-3 day delay, having your own spares may be the only way to get a speedy repair, but with so many parts on the newer cars it would be impossible.
All of this brings up lots of speculation as to how we will get from place to place.

[Brian R Adams]

But EVs aren’t any worse off than conventional vehicles because gas stations can’t pump fuel in a power outage either.

That last sentence is written either out of pathetic ignorance, or in support of the EV agenda. With my ICE vehicles I can carry three hundred miles worth of spare gas in a couple of 5-gal containers. Sure, I need to fill them a few hours or days before the power goes out, but a hurricane isn't taking anyone by surprise these days.
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[Martin Benade]

That’s a harsh comment. And lots of people aren’t very good at planning ahead

[Marcus van Bers]

But EVs aren’t any worse off than conventional vehicles because gas stations can’t pump fuel in a power outage either.

That last sentence is written either out of pathetic ignorance, or in support of the EV agenda. With my ICE vehicles I can carry three hundred miles worth of spare gas in a couple of 5-gal containers. Sure, I need to fill them a few hours or days before the power goes out, but a hurricane isn't taking anyone by surprise these days.
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Keep in mind I did not write this. As seen in the post, I only contributed the first 5 words. The rest of the post is an article from the Globe that I copied and pasted.

[Brian R Adams]

Keep in mind I did not write this. As seen in the post, I only contributed the first 5 words. The rest of the post is an article from the Globe that I copied and pasted.

But of course, Marcus. I assume that's obvious to a reader of the thread.
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[C J Murray]

As if the Helene victems didn't have enough problems. EVs don't like to contact salt water. See video...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/1 ... saltwater/

[Brian R Adams]

That’s a harsh comment.

Thank you, it was intended to be. (Harsh toward the news outlet writer, not Marcus the messenger.)

And lots of people aren’t very good at planning ahead

So true. But having an ICE vehicle certainly improves your margin of error. Even with electric power available, imagine seeking a functional charger in an evacuation scenario involving significant distance in snarled traffic.
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[Martin Benade]

I’m glad the comment was not what I’d thought it was.

At first I was thinking for evacuation either power source would be fairly comparable (with planning) but then realized you couldn’t throw a couple of hazardous jugs of fuel in the trunk of an EV.

[Brian R Adams]

When you absolutely must have fuel, "hazardous" doesn't register. Modern plastic gas canisters are too safe and idiot-proof for their own good; the equivalent is unavailable at any level of risk with a BEV.
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[Martin Benade]

I agree.