RE: rear torsion bars

[Guest]

Vic,
Having only being able to adjust the rear suspension independantly you have to
compromise the corner weights. The cars we balance for a better and more even
front balance do have the weight difference in the rear but that are usually in
not too bad in different numbers. The rear is never "way off" unless some is
wrong with the rest of the set up. When we build a track type car you always
think about where the weight is going, fire bottles to the right side, batteries
the same and if possible away from the ends etc. You can make the 356 a better,
not perfect, car. All of these cars will only brake as well as its worst wheel,
as soon as it goes you are not stopping any better.

Alan

vic skirmants wrote:

Of course with even weight up front, you are guaranteed very large differences in the rear.
Now what?
You brake very nicely into a corner, and have seriously different handling characteristics when coming out of the corner; I guess you'd better have good braking, because you're going to need to slow down more than the other guy.
If the corner weights are off a major amount, the car thinks it's front-engined in one direction and rear-engined in another. I'd rather my car thought it was the same configuration in either direction, just a little heavier on the left than the right.
No, you can't get it perfect; not with the driver and steering box all on one side. You just get the diagonal weights to come out even, as mentioned before.
Also, you set up the corner weights with the sway bar disconnected. On the race cars, the links are adjustable. If the weights come out well, you hook up the sway bar with no pre-load. You can do some pre-loading with the sway bar to fine tune the weights if necessary.
No knock on the guys that gave you advice; it's perfectly good for the cars they are working on. You know, real race cars with real suspensions.
Our dear cars have the worst suspension possible for a race car in the rear. That's balanced by having a worse one up front. I guess the Morgan sliding pillar setup is just as bad.

------------------------
vic skirmants

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[C J Murray]

Some of these postings are from very experienced chassis set-up guys so what else are they willing to share?

We know that the Skirmants rear bar works very well because many races have been won with it but, when compared to a Z-bar, is there an advantage either way in fine adjustment of corner weights?

What is your favorite set-up for racing?
Front torsion bars
Front sway bar size/type
Front camber
Front toe
Front ride height
Rear torsion bar size
Rear sway bar type/size
Rear camber
Rear toe
Additional important details

What is your favorite set-up for very sporty street driving?
Front torsion bars
Front sway bar size/type
Front camber
Front toe
Front ride height
Rear torsion bar size
Rear sway bar type/size
Rear camber
Rear toe
Additional important details

[Vic Skirmants]

Well, I just posted an answer, but when I hit "submit", it all disappeared.
Barry, any ideas? I don't want to do all that typing again.

[C J Murray]

Ouch! That has happened to me if I take too long to compose the post. I guess that the connection is lost. When I feel verbal diarrhea coming on, happens often, sorry, I compose in a Word document and when finished, I copy and paste to the 356 Talk so that I can send it right away. If there is still a problem I have a copy saved to try again.

[Guest]

CJ,
A lot depends on what you are doing with the car, most of my modified 356's are
run on a track under some sort of organization. You have to build the car to
their rules. Some of them allow a wide latitude of modifications and some you
need to be very stock and use only mods done "in the day". As far as street cars
you need to see what the person is trying to receive and the budget. Here in San
Francisco I have to keep chassis height in a range that allows for the hills and
driveways and the tune of the motor to manage the hills and dealing with the
hills. What I am saying is there is no "one size fits all" at least here in SF.
Here are some examples of mods for racing. If you want to run in the Monterey
Historic s you cannot use a Z bar, welded reinforced C links or trailing arm,
roll cage, disc brakes on a drum car and if your car only had Zeniths then you
need to have Zeniths. The list goes on and on.

Alan

C J Murray wrote:

Some of these postings are from very experienced chassis set-up guys so what else are they willing to share?

We know that the Skirmants rear bar works very well because many races have been won with it but, when compared to a Z-bar, is there an advantage either way in fine adjustment of corner weights?

What is your favorite set-up for racing?
Front torsion bars
Front sway bar size/type
Front camber
Front toe
Front ride height
Rear torsion bar size
Rear sway bar type/size
Rear camber
Rear toe
Additional important details

What is your favorite set-up for very sporty street driving?
Front torsion bars
Front sway bar size/type
Front camber
Front toe
Front ride height
Rear torsion bar size
Rear sway bar type/size
Rear camber
Rear toe
Additional important details

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[Alex Parmenter]

Vic, would love to see your long lost response to the suspension settings question above, would be great info for the site to have!

Thanks
Alex

[Chris Davis]

Will second Alex's motion. Vic's advice (especially the sporty street setup) would be very helpful to me. I do plan to use Vic's camber compensator on the back and Willhoit's 17.5mm sway bar on the front, but maybe that front sway bar is a bit much for a street (356c) car?

[James Overstreet]

Will second Alex's motion. Vic's advice (especially the sporty street setup) would be very helpful to me. I do plan to use Vic's camber compensator on the back and Willhoit's 17.5mm sway bar on the front, but maybe that front sway bar is a bit much for a street (356c) car?

Same.

[Geoff Fleming]

I use the Skirmant’s regulator at the rear and the Willhit 17.5 sway bar up front. The car now behaves more like a modern auto and feels great on the highway.
In the past I’ve used the old Porsche camber compensator and a 19mm sway bar but my current combo is the best, by far. Money well spent.

[Chris Davis]

I use the Skirmant’s regulator at the rear and the Willhit 17.5 sway bar up front. The car now behaves more like a modern auto and feels great on the highway.
In the past I’ve used the old Porsche camber compensator and a 19mm sway bar but my current combo is the best, by far. Money well spent.

Thanks Geoff! What shocks do you use? Do you have any negative camber in the rear, or are you running stock camber/ride height?

[Geoff Fleming]

I kept the stock suspension settings but did re-new the rubber bushings on the rear torsion bars while things were apart.
Front shocks are older Boge and the rears are very old gas shocks, I’ll have to check the make.

[Alex Parmenter]

On my 65 C coupe I’m running the following and the car now handles very well and enjoyed it on several Hill Country Rallies! Great in the turns, very predictable and very stable at speed, but still comfortable.

• 165 x 15” Vredestein Sprint Classics

• Willhoit 17.5mm front anti roll bar

• Willhoit rear sport torsion bushings innner and outer

• Vic’s rear compensator bar

• Front lowered as far as possible on adjuster

• rear slightly lower than stock, forgot camber reading, but mild/stock

• Stock koni shocks, set to mid setting

[Al Zim]

No one has mentioned restoring the suspension front and rear! Including setting the torsion bars. This is an expensive and complicated endeavor. When we are putting the suspension back together we use a professional alignment rack it is level. By using a digital angle gauge you can set the torsion bars (front and rear) easily and correctly! Everything wears out. Including the front suspension. We use a vertical mill in correcting this set of discrepancies. Al

[Martin Benade]

By the same token I didn’t mention my dental work . Everything wears out.