Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

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Larry Brooks
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#16 Post by Larry Brooks »

Martin Benade wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 7:24 pm Has Fisker gotten federal money already?
With the failure of the second Fisker, its investors were left out to dry instead of American taxpayers. While Henrik Fisker's first company was boosted by a $529 million federal loan — $139 million of which the government lost — the second was funded through Wall Street's bullishness on SPACs and EVs.

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Brian R Adams
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#17 Post by Brian R Adams »

Martin Benade wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 7:24 pm Has Fisker gotten federal money already?
Who needs cold cash when you have EPA and NHTSA regulating (mandating) in favor of your product? The rules are rigged and the playing field tilted sharply toward the EV team. 2030 is only 6 years hence, and that's only the first stop in this unfolding Utopian nightmare.
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#18 Post by Brian R Adams »

It's nice to have the last word. [Mic drop]
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#19 Post by Brian R Adams »

There's a new paper being published by Severin Borenstein and Lucas Davis at Haas Business School at UC Berkeley: The Distributional Effects of U.S. Tax Credits for Heat Pumps, Solar Panels, and Electric Vehicles.

Quote (emphasis added):

Over the last two decades, U.S. households have received $47 billion in tax credits for buying heat pumps, solar panels, electric vehicles, and other “clean energy” technologies. Using information from tax returns, we show that these tax credits have gone predominantly to higher-income households. The bottom three income quintiles have received about 10% of all credits, while the top quintile has received about 60%.

Note: The EV alone distributions are even more extremely skewed to the rich, as shown at bottom below. Shockingly so.
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Green distributions.jpg
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https://haas.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/WP348.pdf
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#20 Post by Harlan Halsey »

Tax credits go to those who pay taxes? What a surprise.

Larry Brooks
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#21 Post by Larry Brooks »

Brian R Adams wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:12 pm There's a new paper being published by Severin Borenstein and Lucas Davis at Haas Business School at UC Berkeley: The Distributional Effects of U.S. Tax Credits for Heat Pumps, Solar Panels, and Electric Vehicles.

Quote (emphasis added):

Over the last two decades, U.S. households have received $47 billion in tax credits for buying heat pumps, solar panels, electric vehicles, and other “clean energy” technologies. Using information from tax returns, we show that these tax credits have gone predominantly to higher-income households. The bottom three income quintiles have received about 10% of all credits, while the top quintile has received about 60%.

Note: The EV alone distributions are even more extremely skewed to the rich, as shown at bottom below. Shockingly so.
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Green distributions.jpg
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https://haas.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/WP348.pdf
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Yes, I see the problem. The observations by you (and others) will hopefully rectify this grave injustice by just giving lower income people the cash for heat pumps, solar panels, electric vehicles, and other clean energy technologies. They already have such a program in place for Native American Reservations to buy solar panels. Since they don't pay taxes tax credits wouldn't work for them. They should be able to put together a program for lower income Americans pretty easily since they already have a blueprint. :D :D :D

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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#22 Post by Brian R Adams »

Cute. But we were assured that the credits are to assist the masses of low-to-middle income folk, which is the only way EV sales (absent cheap EVs) can possibly approach the mandated market penetration. It's a cruel distortion that those who least need help buying an EV are reaping the handouts.
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Larry Brooks
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#23 Post by Larry Brooks »

Brian R Adams wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:30 pm Cute. But we were assured that the credits are to assist the masses of low-to-middle income folk, which is the only way EV sales (absent cheap EVs) can possibly approach the mandated market penetration. It's a cruel distortion that those who least need help buying an EV are reaping the handouts.
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I was almost certain that you would enjoy that!

:idea: So it appears you would endorse a program similar to the one for Native Americans to alleviate this problem. It's heartwarming to see you expressing such concern for the masses of low-to-middle income folk.

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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#24 Post by C J Murray »

A recent survey of EV owners uncovered that 46% will not buy another EV.
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#25 Post by Brian R Adams »

Larry Brooks wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:32 pm So it appears you would endorse a program similar to the one for Native Americans to alleviate this problem.
Not only did I never express such a notion, I disavow the very existence of the so-called problem.
Larry Brooks wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:32 pm It's heartwarming to see you expressing such concern for the masses of low-to-middle income folk.
Since I am firmly ensconced in the low-to-middle income cohort, such concern seems natural. 8-) However, if the idea (which you endorse) is to save the planet by leading drivers by the nose to EVs, you likely agree our fearless leaders have crafted a flawed solution. After all, households earning $200k+ represent only 12% of US households. How many EVs are they likely to purchase?
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#26 Post by Larry Brooks »

17.5 million automobiles were registered in 1925. This does not include 2.5 million trucks. Americas population that year was 115.8 million. The ratio of cars to people was 15%
By 1925 ICE vehicles had been readily available for over 20 years. Try to guess what income group the almost overwhelming majority of car owners where in 1925?

In 2024 14% currently own a hybrid, PHEV, or electric car up from 9% in 2021. So ownership increased by over 50% in three years. You can do your own projection for the future at that rate. How many years have Hybrid and EV's been readily available? What income group are most of the owners in?

I have no intention of buying an EV for the foreseeable future. I will wait for the infrastructure to catch up. But I did switch to Hybrids a few years ago, cutting my fuel usage by over 50%. Incidentally, I also cut my fuel tax by exactly the same amount. So I appreciate everyone who is helping pick up the slack on what I'm not paying anymore. I will not get into the carbon side of the equation.

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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#27 Post by Brian R Adams »

Larry Brooks wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:25 pm In 2024 14% currently own a hybrid, PHEV, or electric car up from 9% in 2021.
All my comments have referred to pure EVs (aka BEVs), excluding hybrids. I've endorsed hybrids in this forum, as long as they're not forced on anyone, and compete on a level playing field.
Larry Brooks wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:25 pm So ownership increased by over 50% in three years. You can do your own projection for the future at that rate.
"Past performance is not indicative of future results." Not least WRT pure EVs.
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#28 Post by Brian R Adams »

C J Murray wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:42 pm A recent survey of EV owners uncovered that 46% will not buy another EV.
In the USA, likely to switch back to ICE:
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EV satisfaction.jpg
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#29 Post by Brian R Adams »

Globally, 29% likely to switch back to ICE, for the following reasons:
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EV satisfaction 2b.jpg
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Re: Why no one wants a new car now - WSJ

#30 Post by Brian R Adams »

From Yahoo Finance, 28 June 2024:

Automotive research firm J.D. Power’s highly watched initial quality study is out — and it appears EVs are giving consumers big headaches.

J.D. Power’s study tracks responses from nearly 100,000 purchasers and lessees of 2024 vehicles within the first 90 days of ownership, and for the first time in the study’s 38-year history, it incorporates repair visit data. Overall, internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles averaged 180 PP100 (or 180 problems per 100 vehicles), while battery electric vehicles (BEVs) averaged a whopping 266 PP100, 86 points higher than ICE vehicles.
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Automakers have typically said that EVs are generally less problematic and require fewer repairs than ICE vehicles because they have a smaller number of parts and systems. However, J.D. Power's study with newly incorporated repair data shows EVs, as well as plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), require more repairs than gas-powered vehicles in all repair categories.

“Owners of cutting edge, tech-filled BEVs and PHEVs are experiencing problems that are of a severity level high enough for them to take their new vehicle into the dealership at a rate three times higher than that of gas-powered vehicle owners,” wrote Frank Hanley, senior director of auto benchmarking at J.D. Power, in the study.
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