New California classic car survey

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David Lawrence
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Re: New California classic car survey

#301 Post by David Lawrence »

I don’t invest in the stock market so it doesn’t matter to me
Unless you were born or married into money if you don't invest in the stock market your missing a good way to retire comfortably.
I'm sure that a lot of the people that are posting to this thread already know this.

Here is a case where the federal government has passed laws that help you to be financially secure with the Roth IRA's and 401K plans.
Unless you like to gamble you do not have to spend a lot of time studying the stock market, you reach financial security by "Buying The Market".
There are a few books out there that tell you how to do this, my favorite is John Bogle's "Common Sense Investing".
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C J Murray
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Re: New California classic car survey

#302 Post by C J Murray »

John Bogle was a genius. His philosophy of life is to be admired. He understood when he had "Enough" and when to support good causes. He was the very best of capitalism.

Anyway, stock prices were only mentioned to support the idea that the EV battery business is not what some had predicted a few years back. EVs may succeed but they are hanging on by a thread right now. Tesla was very smart to establish themselves as the dominant player before the others jumped on the bandwagon. Maybe I should say, before the government pushed them onto the bandwagon.
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Re: New California classic car survey

#303 Post by Brian R Adams »

C J Murray wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:42 pm EVs may succeed but they are hanging on by a thread right now.
From SeekingAlpha this morning (emphasis added):

Canada is moving ahead with its electrification plans, with new rules expected to be issued tomorrow requiring all new passenger cars sold in the country to be zero emissions by 2035. The regulations are aimed at shortening wait times for EVs and ensuring enough affordable zero-emission vehicles are available to meet the demand. Canada wants ZEVs to represent 20% of all new car sales in 2026, 60% in 2030 and 100% in 2035. Brian Kingston, CEO of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association that represents Ford (F), Stellantis (STLA) and GM (GM), said stronger incentives are needed to make ZEVs more affordable, instead of a mandate on "what Canadians can and cannot buy."

Huh. I wonder why the vehicle manufacturers are not thrilled by and satisfied with the government simply mandating everyone must buy ZEVs? Could it be they see the elephant-sized fly in that ointment? To wit: affordability.
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Brian R Adams
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Re: New California classic car survey

#304 Post by Brian R Adams »

(Bloomberg, 21 Dec '23) -- The shift away from cars with dirty combustion engines is running into a new hurdle: Drivers don’t want to buy used electric vehicles, and that’s undermining the market for new ones, too.

... In the $1.2 trillion secondhand market, prices for battery-powered cars are falling faster than for their combustion-engine cousins. Buyers are shunning them due to a lack of subsidies, a desire to wait for better technology and continued shortfalls in charging infrastructures.

... Some of the biggest buyers of new cars, including rental firms, are cutting back on EV adoption because they’re losing money on resales ...

... “There isn’t used-car demand for EVs,” said Matt Harrison, Toyota Motor Corp.’s chief operating officer in Europe. “That’s really hurting the cost-of-ownership story.”

... China offers a cautionary tale. Lucrative subsidies turned the country into an EV giant, but also produced weed-infested graveyards of abandoned battery-powered vehicles. Any similar eyesores in Europe or the US may strengthen calls from conservative politicians to roll back aid for the industry, with key elections coming up in the US and Europe in 2024.

... Part of the problem is that the industry is handling secondhand EVs for the first time. While combustion-engine cars can be quickly valued via their age and mileage, there are no tests in widespread use that determine the quality of a battery, Weddigen von Knapp said. The battery represents around 30% of an EV’s value, a share that is expected to decline in the coming years, according to BloombergNEF.

... Ayvens, a fleet management company handling around 3.5 million vehicles, said the uncertainty around EV technology will convince more customers to lease rather than buy — accelerating a shift away from owning a car to driving it for a fee.
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used EVs.jpg
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Re: New California classic car survey

#305 Post by C J Murray »

I got this from 3 friends in the past few days.
Screenshot 2023-12-26 at 11.59.00 AM.png
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Re: New California classic car survey

#306 Post by Mike Wilson »

Thanks for a great laugh, Cliff!

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Re: New California classic car survey

#307 Post by Brian R Adams »

That must have a combustion engine after all. Had a price point to hit.
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Re: New California classic car survey

#308 Post by C J Murray »

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Re: New California classic car survey

#309 Post by Brian R Adams »

From Fox News (edited for brevity; emphasis added):

About half of General Motors’ 2,000 Buick dealers have accepted a voluntary buyout program due to their reluctance to sell electric vehicles. Additional dealers may opt to take the buyout instead of making the EV-related investments that GM required for them to continue selling Buicks, as GM is planning for the brand’s vehicles to be 100% electric by 2030. Last year, GM told the dealers to invest at least $300,000 to facilitate the selling and servicing of electric vehicles, according to the Wall Street Journal. Cadillac dealers also accepted a huge number of buyouts, reducing current locations by about one-third, driving the number of dealerships from 875 at the beginning of 2021 to less than 560.

A coalition of more than 3,000 auto dealers nationwide sent an open letter to President Biden, calling on him to "tap the brakes" on his administration's aggressive electric vehicle (EV) push. The dealers noted that the best indicator of customer demand in the auto marketplace is how EVs are stacking up in their lots. The letter further noted that there are many issues facing the EV industry such as lacking charging infrastructure, energy grid instability and a lack of reliable mineral supplies vital for EV batteries. The coalition — which includes dealers located in all 50 states and who collectively sell every major car brand — is taking particular aim at the Biden administration's tailpipe emissions standards released earlier this year which are the most aggressive federal regulations of their kind ever issued.

Under the regulations proposed by the EPA, the majority of new vehicle purchases will be electric within a decade.The EPA's tailpipe regulations will impact car model years 2027 through 2032. Under the regulations, 67% of new sedan, crossover, SUV and light truck purchases, up to 50% of bus and garbage truck purchases, 35% of short-haul freight tractor purchases, and 25% of long-haul freight tractor purchases could be electric by 2032. Biden previously set a goal of ensuring 50% of car purchases are electric by 2030. The White House said the rules would provide a "clear pathway for a continued rise in EV sales."

Gas-powered cars represented 93% of all new car sales in 2022, according to a report from the Alliance for Automotive Innovation. And EVs remain far more expensive and less efficient than alternatives. In addition, experts have warned that switching too quickly to EVs may present a national security risk given China's dominance of the global EV industry.

According to the International Energy Agency (IEA), for example, China produces about 75% of all lithium-ion batteries, a key component of EVs, worldwide. The nation also boasts 70% of production capacity for cathodes and 85% for anodes, two key parts of such batteries. In addition, more than 50% of lithium, cobalt and graphite processing and refining capacity is located in China, the IEA data showed. Those three critical minerals, in addition to copper and nickel, are vital for EV batteries and other green energy technologies. Chinese investment firms have also been aggressive in purchasing stakes in African mines in recent years to ensure a firm control over mineral production.
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Re: New California classic car survey

#310 Post by Marcus van Bers »

So I'm guessing that Jay Leno's recent article in Hagerty's magazine is all about this survey? Lithium batteries will be a noose around any politicians neck if they bet their fortunes and career on them. I expect that within 15 years solid state batteries will become the norm which will drive the electric future. Who wouldn't want a battery that has a 1000km+ range and can be recharged in 15 minutes.
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Re: New California classic car survey

#311 Post by Brian R Adams »

Marcus van Bers wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 9:47 pm So I'm guessing that Jay Leno's recent article in Hagerty's magazine is all about this survey?
How recent? (Did you get Jan-Feb 2024 issue already?) I looked through the three most recent 2023 issues, but nothing in Leno's column about this survey.
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Re: New California classic car survey

#312 Post by Larry Brooks »

Marcus van Bers wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 9:47 pm So I'm guessing that Jay Leno's recent article in Hagerty's magazine is all about this survey? Lithium batteries will be a noose around any politicians neck if they bet their fortunes and career on them. I expect that within 15 years solid state batteries will become the norm which will drive the electric future. Who wouldn't want a battery that has a 1000km+ range and can be recharged in 15 minutes.
I agree with Solid State Batteries being the future, but meanwhile:

"A seismic development in the world of mineral resources has emerged along the Nevada-Oregon border, signaling a potential revolution in the global lithium supply chain. Geologists have uncovered a colossal lithium deposit within the McDermitt Caldera, and its implications could be felt far and wide, particularly by the United States in its quest for lithium independence.

Hidden within the geological wonders of the McDermitt Caldera lies a lithium motherlode of epic proportions.

What sets this discovery apart, however, isn't just its sheer size; it's the unprecedented quality of the lithium within. Experts anticipate that the McDermitt Caldera contains lithium reserves of a caliber that surpasses anything previously found worldwide. In fact, this find is projected to nearly double the previous record, which stood at approximately 23 million metric tons, as reported in the esteemed journal Science Advances."

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... aign=cppst ..

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... aign=cppst

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Re: New California classic car survey

#313 Post by Brian R Adams »

Larry Brooks wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:36 am "A seismic development in the world of mineral resources has emerged along the Nevada-Oregon border, signaling a potential revolution in the global lithium supply chain. Geologists have uncovered a colossal lithium deposit within the McDermitt Caldera, and its implications could be felt far and wide, particularly by the United States in its quest for lithium independence.
That's the Thacker Pass project. The local Indian tribes and certain environmetalist allies tried to stop it, but the Biden administration steamrolled the opposition. I drive through that area a half dozen times each year on US-95. Thacker Pass was previously known by locals only as a remote hotspot for hunting Chukar partridge. The object of the local tribe's affection is known in English as Red Mountain. A sign stapled to a power pole near my Reno home indicates there were activists far removed from the actual locale of the project. (Depicted flora is not broccoli but sagebrush.)
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https://apnews.com/article/mining-lithi ... 58322ff4ac
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Re: New California classic car survey

#314 Post by Marcus van Bers »

Brian R Adams wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 11:47 pm
Marcus van Bers wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 9:47 pm So I'm guessing that Jay Leno's recent article in Hagerty's magazine is all about this survey?
How recent? (Did you get Jan-Feb 2024 issue already?) I looked through the three most recent 2023 issues, but nothing in Leno's column about this survey.
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Yes, the Jan-Feb 2024 issue. Found it in my mail box Friday afternoon. Jay certainly has an interesting take on the survey.
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Re: New California classic car survey

#315 Post by C J Murray »

Based on the popularity of this thread it is unfortunate that other car hobby related government policy discussions have long been forbidden on Talk. I hope that our club policy makers wake up to the fact that it is 356 related and that members are civilized enough to engage in these discussions.
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