Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
- Don Gale
- 356 Fan
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- Tag: Black A's Matter
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Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
A few musings and tech snippets: Thanks to this site, which I started lurking in 2014, member since 1983 back when all tech info was gleaned from the bi-monthly magazines, I've finally mustered up the motivation to get my garage queen back on the road (1958 A coupe). Retirement certainly helps. I bought it in 1973 as a very presentable daily driver for $ 900 as a starving student. Numerous repairs and rebuilds along the way. It only left me stranded twice, once in a parking lot close to home when the old style bronze valve seat popped out and got cocked. Another time 100 miles away when the diff carrier collar snapped off. Both repairs affordably remedied with 1970's dollars. Forward to 1979 when I moved across country and parked it and set it aside for other interests, where it has sat for the last 44 years. The time has come to do a full restoration and I have nearly 100% of all it's original equipment.
I'm starting with the brakes, knowing that once its drivable, I'll be too temped to take it out for a spin. So, what I've found so far: I did a full brake job 39k miles ago in the '70's and since then, the aluminum cups in the slave cylinders were completely corroded and frozen in place, so I'm doing all new cylinders. The front king pins and link pin bushings were rebuilt back then also. I just found that the shop that did them did a nice job on the king pins but used the old link pins in new bushings, which are now sloppy, so new link pins and bushings.
What I've learned:
A few missing spec's: I had to beat the bushes to find the torque for the old style front wheel bearing jam nuts, it's 51 ft-lb. Please don't flame me, in the mechanical engineering world, foot-pounds is for nuts and bolts, pound-feet is for power transmission, and for structural design torsion and bending moment.
According to Samba, the tie-rod castellated nut is 22 ft-lb plus a skosh more to line up the cotter pin
As I previously posted, Porsche does not give a runout tolerance for brake drums. What I later found is .010" is generally accepted for other makes with similar diameter drums.
Beyond that, I'm grateful there are more supporting vendors which provide way more parts than ever existed a few decades ago, and for all the talented members of this forum who willing share their tremendous depth of knowledge and expertise -- too many to mention.
Cheers, and KTF! Hopefully I'll get her drivable before the wife and kids stick me in a rest home
I'm starting with the brakes, knowing that once its drivable, I'll be too temped to take it out for a spin. So, what I've found so far: I did a full brake job 39k miles ago in the '70's and since then, the aluminum cups in the slave cylinders were completely corroded and frozen in place, so I'm doing all new cylinders. The front king pins and link pin bushings were rebuilt back then also. I just found that the shop that did them did a nice job on the king pins but used the old link pins in new bushings, which are now sloppy, so new link pins and bushings.
What I've learned:
A few missing spec's: I had to beat the bushes to find the torque for the old style front wheel bearing jam nuts, it's 51 ft-lb. Please don't flame me, in the mechanical engineering world, foot-pounds is for nuts and bolts, pound-feet is for power transmission, and for structural design torsion and bending moment.
According to Samba, the tie-rod castellated nut is 22 ft-lb plus a skosh more to line up the cotter pin
As I previously posted, Porsche does not give a runout tolerance for brake drums. What I later found is .010" is generally accepted for other makes with similar diameter drums.
Beyond that, I'm grateful there are more supporting vendors which provide way more parts than ever existed a few decades ago, and for all the talented members of this forum who willing share their tremendous depth of knowledge and expertise -- too many to mention.
Cheers, and KTF! Hopefully I'll get her drivable before the wife and kids stick me in a rest home
Last edited by Don Gale on Fri May 26, 2023 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1958 356A 1600 Super Sunroof Coupe
former 1966 Euro 912 Sunroof
former 1978 Intermeccanica Speedster w/'68 912
Member Since 1983, #4039
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
former 1966 Euro 912 Sunroof
former 1978 Intermeccanica Speedster w/'68 912
Member Since 1983, #4039
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
- Mike Wilson
- Classifieds Monitor
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Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've leaned so far . . .
Great info, Don, and congrats on your retirement project!
Mike
Mike
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've leaned so far . . .
Good work! We sure are lucky at the amount of parts we can now easy buy for our cars. And I really like that Stoddard is only twenty minutes away.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
- Phil Planck
- 356 Fan
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- Location: NE Michigan, lower penn.
Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
Don
Great story. Please start a new thread on your journey.
Great story. Please start a new thread on your journey.
Phil Planck
- Patrick Ertel
- 356 Fan
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- Location: West Central Ohio
Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
Are you installing a dual circuit master cylinder while you're at it?
Patrick Ertel
- Don Gale
- 356 Fan
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- Tag: Black A's Matter
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Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
Not this time, keeping it stock. I've had bad luck in the past with dual masters failing internally and passing fluid from the front to back pistons without external signs of leaks and not applying pressure to the brakes
1958 356A 1600 Super Sunroof Coupe
former 1966 Euro 912 Sunroof
former 1978 Intermeccanica Speedster w/'68 912
Member Since 1983, #4039
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
former 1966 Euro 912 Sunroof
former 1978 Intermeccanica Speedster w/'68 912
Member Since 1983, #4039
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
- Jim Clement
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:46 am
- Tag: 1957 356 A Coupe
- Location: Calgary Alberta
Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
Good Porsche Video
https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/acces ... kedrum356/
i am sure at a very reasonable rate $$
https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/acces ... kedrum356/
i am sure at a very reasonable rate $$
- Alex Parmenter
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:57 pm
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
Don, fantastic to hear that you’ve had the car for so long!! Going to be exciting to get it back on the road again, looking forward to your progress and pics!
Last edited by Alex Parmenter on Fri Jun 23, 2023 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Always searching for parts for my Oct 54 Pre A coupe including these:
2 piece 546/2 engine close to #336XX
Front bumper
Passenger sun visor
Bosch SH/ZS4/1 Ignition switch
Beige knobs for light switch, choke and heater controls
2 piece 546/2 engine close to #336XX
Front bumper
Passenger sun visor
Bosch SH/ZS4/1 Ignition switch
Beige knobs for light switch, choke and heater controls
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:28 am
- Tag: 56 Coupe #56209
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
Hello Don
The Hand Brake is used to not only stop you rolling down the hill, but is also the Emergency Brake.
Most 356s that I’ve seen, when the handbrake is applied, will lock one rear wheel while the other side is still free to rotate.
They can be individually adjusted at the point where the cables exit the body at the rear, so that they both work evenly.
Enjoy your Brakes repair, very rewarding when it’s all working properly.
Regards
David
The Hand Brake is used to not only stop you rolling down the hill, but is also the Emergency Brake.
Most 356s that I’ve seen, when the handbrake is applied, will lock one rear wheel while the other side is still free to rotate.
They can be individually adjusted at the point where the cables exit the body at the rear, so that they both work evenly.
Enjoy your Brakes repair, very rewarding when it’s all working properly.
Regards
David
- Don Gale
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1183
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:27 pm
- Tag: Black A's Matter
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Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
Thanks!
I'm having a lot of fun with this project. The fronts are done, just need to bleed them after I finish the rears and put in the new master cyl. The link pins and king pin greased completely, I used Amsoil grease with a pneumatic grease gun.
I did the wheels last week and mounted a cheap set of tires just to be able to roll it around in the shop and take it for a drive once it's ready. I have a set of chrome 5.5 Mangels for it when I finish the body & paint and will get a set of Vredestein's or such.
I have learned to be very patient with the progress when I find a "gotcha" and have to order more parts. If you zoom in on the outer wheel bearing race surface on the stub axle, I did an old school shade tree hack called "pricking" to snug up the race that showed signs of spinning. Maybe one day I'll go back and get a set of the fatter spindles.
I'm having a lot of fun with this project. The fronts are done, just need to bleed them after I finish the rears and put in the new master cyl. The link pins and king pin greased completely, I used Amsoil grease with a pneumatic grease gun.
I did the wheels last week and mounted a cheap set of tires just to be able to roll it around in the shop and take it for a drive once it's ready. I have a set of chrome 5.5 Mangels for it when I finish the body & paint and will get a set of Vredestein's or such.
I have learned to be very patient with the progress when I find a "gotcha" and have to order more parts. If you zoom in on the outer wheel bearing race surface on the stub axle, I did an old school shade tree hack called "pricking" to snug up the race that showed signs of spinning. Maybe one day I'll go back and get a set of the fatter spindles.
1958 356A 1600 Super Sunroof Coupe
former 1966 Euro 912 Sunroof
former 1978 Intermeccanica Speedster w/'68 912
Member Since 1983, #4039
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
former 1966 Euro 912 Sunroof
former 1978 Intermeccanica Speedster w/'68 912
Member Since 1983, #4039
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
- Al Zim
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:37 pm
- Location: FT.WORTH/DALLAS TEXAS
- Contact:
Re: Front brakes refresh -- things I've learned so far . . .
To Date we have sold over 1200 dual master cylinder kits. Problems can be traced directly to the lack of experience the technician has with brakes. What you should consider is that even if your 356 was manufactured in April 1965 it is 58 years old. Think seriously about replacing everything! And rebuild the pedal cluster. In case of an accident who will put life back in the car? If it is a serious accident who will put life back in you. al zim
Front end?
Front end?
www.allzim.com
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www.facebook.com/ZimsAuto/
www.instagram.com/zims_autotechnik/