Oil for 4 Cam Motors

Discussion of 4-Cam Type 547 engines (and all the Fuhrmann racing variants) and cars that powered them.
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Bill Sargent
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Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#1 Post by Bill Sargent »

I have been running Motul 20W50 hi zinc mineral oil in my 2 L plain bearing motors with no problems. Cost direct from Motul is $10/liter purchased in 5 liter cans and free shipping if you buy over $99. Autohaus AZ has the same price. I believe the Motul oil is 1800ppm zinc.

I have been thinking about alternatives available locally.

There are a couple of readily available dyno oils:

* Valvoline VR1 racing and Classic oil - 1300 ppm zinc. I have been using this in my pushrod cars for several years with good results. About $40 incl tax for 5 quarts locally ($8/qt).

* Casterol GTX Classic 20w50. 1300 ppm zinc. About the same price as Valvoline. I have not used it.

Valvoline also makes a synthetic version of the VR1 with the same zinc content. I have not used it.

What oils have others been using?
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Bill Sargent
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Olivier Auvray
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#2 Post by Olivier Auvray »

If I remember well, Porsche recommanded to use HD diesel oil..... specially Shell Rotela.

A well known problem was/is oil foaming and the best oil is not oil with the highest ZDDP level but the oil with the highest resistance to foaming.

Another solution is to modify the oil tank: you put an air/oil separator inside (a fine mesh inside is the simplest / cheapest ).
On the engine you can install a spacer between the sump plate & the case. I've seen this modification on engines done by karl Hloch (may be with one extension to the pick up gallery).

On my side, I use Motul V300.

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David Jones
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#3 Post by David Jones »

Mobil 1 15/50. Usually less than $30 at Walmart for 5 quarts.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
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Bill Sargent
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#4 Post by Bill Sargent »

David - do you use Mobil 1 15w50 in a 4 cam motor?
Regards,

Bill Sargent
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David Jones
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#5 Post by David Jones »

I don't Bill but careful research makes me believe it is as good as any oil out there plus it has 1200 ppm of ZDDP.
My 97 boxster has lived its life on the stuff with 10k mile oil changes.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
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Bill Sargent
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#6 Post by Bill Sargent »

A friend who vintage races a plain bearing 2 liter 4 cam car runs Red Line 15W40 full synthetic racing oil.
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Bill Sargent
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Jacques Lefriant
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#7 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

Salut Olivier
I believe the spacer you are referring to is the 904-587/3 engine case execution that raised the pickup and screen this is done in the new cases that are offered now.
j
 

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Brian R Adams
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#8 Post by Brian R Adams »

Was castor oil ever used in 4-cams?
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Bill Sargent
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#9 Post by Bill Sargent »

I believe it was used in early roller crank motors. Jacques can provide a more definitive answer.
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Bill Sargent
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Jacques Lefriant
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#10 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

Hi Brian
yes Castrol oil was used and Billy Doyle used Blenzall Castor oil for roller crank engines. BTW it turns hard when stored for a long time in stored engine parts.
j
 

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Bill Sargent
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#11 Post by Bill Sargent »

Caster oil is still available, albeit expensive. It’s on Amazon for $25/quart. About $200 for a 4 cam oil change. It is also available in gallons which would probably lower the price a little.
IMG_1018.jpeg
Blendzall Racing Castor Lube - 4 Cycle - 32oz. 465 QT, 40 wt. https://a.co/d/fU9rrdg

Motul 20W50 mineral oil is about $10/quart. Valvoline VR1 20W50 hi zinc oil is about $8/quart.
Regards,

Bill Sargent
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Martin Benade
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#12 Post by Martin Benade »

Other than the smell is there any reason to use it?
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Brian R Adams
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#13 Post by Brian R Adams »

Martin Benade wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:18 am Other than the smell is there any reason to use it?
Wikipedia says this:

"Castor oil has better low-temperature viscosity properties and high-temperature lubrication than most vegetable oils, making it useful as a lubricant in jet, diesel, and racing engines. ... but it tends to form gums in a short time, so its usefulness is limited to engines that are regularly rebuilt, such as racing engines."

More: "It is highly resistant to degradation when the engine has its fuel-air mixture leaned for maximum engine speed. ... One British manufacturer of sleeve-valved four-cycle model engines has stated the 'varnish' created by using castor oil in small percentages can improve the pneumatic seal of the sleeve valve, improving such an engine's performance over time."
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Harlan Halsey
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#14 Post by Harlan Halsey »

Castor oil was a racing oil in the 1930s, drained after the car came off the track. In a street car it forms a coating/sludge which is very difficult to clean from internal engine parts and it's not that good a lubricant. Chuck Forge found his Castrol oil 1957 street Carrera worn out at 40,000 miles when it holed a piston and he rebuilt it. He used and recommended Kendall straight 40W with a little STP and EOS after that. I have always used that oil in my Carreras.
However, that was 60 years ago, and oil engineering has progressed. I use 15W50 oil in my pushrod 356s, and I plan to use it in my plain bearing Carrera. I am running low on Kendal/Brad Penn 40W. I wonder what current informed thinking is about the proper oil is for roller Carreras?

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Bil Brown
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Re: Oil for 4 Cam Motors

#15 Post by Bil Brown »

I`ve got a case of 40W Castrol bean oil that`s been on the shelf for 30 years.......is it any good?
Bill Brown

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