Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
- Dennis Vogel
- 356 Fan
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Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
I made my first sheet metal purchase from a known vendor. I'm curious if this is the best I can hope for. Three specific examples:
1. Radius on the corners of the lower door skin are not correct (at least compared to an original T5 door) 2. Lower door skin has no curve to it. It's just a flat panel.
3. Door bottom panel depressions are sharper than original and holes are missing. Don't get me wrong. We're fortunate that we have vendors that offer panels at all. I know the stamping dies wear over time and panels may need some trimming and adjustment to fit. That said, the things I'm pointing out seem like oversights. If you're making and selling these parts, why would you not make the correct radius on a corner and use similar angle and depth on depressions? Why wouldn't you punch the holes?
I know there are some metal masters on this board who would find rectifying these things trivial. I'm buying these panels to assist me in getting our car as correct as possible, but on the road before I die. Adjusting these details are going to cost me a fair amount of time. Do I just need to accept it and move on, or should I be sourcing from another vendor?
1. Radius on the corners of the lower door skin are not correct (at least compared to an original T5 door) 2. Lower door skin has no curve to it. It's just a flat panel.
3. Door bottom panel depressions are sharper than original and holes are missing. Don't get me wrong. We're fortunate that we have vendors that offer panels at all. I know the stamping dies wear over time and panels may need some trimming and adjustment to fit. That said, the things I'm pointing out seem like oversights. If you're making and selling these parts, why would you not make the correct radius on a corner and use similar angle and depth on depressions? Why wouldn't you punch the holes?
I know there are some metal masters on this board who would find rectifying these things trivial. I'm buying these panels to assist me in getting our car as correct as possible, but on the road before I die. Adjusting these details are going to cost me a fair amount of time. Do I just need to accept it and move on, or should I be sourcing from another vendor?
1960 356 S90 Sunroof Coupe
1970 914-6
2014 Carrera S
1970 914-6
2014 Carrera S
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
As for the outer skin it takes the curvature of the door structure once the bottom is crimped and flattened. Hopefully the bottom panel has its curve.
The corners are easy to grind and weld to the desired shape. Once you’ve welded many of the pieces in they won’t be that pristine anyway and these details will just be part of the work. It’s all pretty fun actually.
The corners are easy to grind and weld to the desired shape. Once you’ve welded many of the pieces in they won’t be that pristine anyway and these details will just be part of the work. It’s all pretty fun actually.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
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- 356 Fan
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
for sure, check the lower outside door panel it should have a curve out from one end to the other, they shouldn't be flat.
Jay D.
Jay D.
jay darlington
- Adam Wright
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
Modern replacement metal is about as good as it has ever been. Is it perfect, no, but with a little work you can make it perfect, or leave it as-is, few will notice the minute details. For example, when my car was restored in the 80's you couldn't get floors, so my car has a flat floor, made out of V crimp roofing. It was a kit that was made for the 356, fit pretty nice, and the guy who put it in did a nice job. It was as good as it got then.
But seriously, you will be fine with the replacement metal, make little changes if you choose, but know it's pretty good, at least in comparison.
But seriously, you will be fine with the replacement metal, make little changes if you choose, but know it's pretty good, at least in comparison.
www.unobtanium-inc.com
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
- Adam Wright
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
If you're seeking perfection, go see my friend Wray, he teaches a class on perfection.
www.proshaper.com
www.proshaper.com
www.unobtanium-inc.com
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
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- 356 Fan
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
One suggestion: go to abcgt.com and read completely through one of the threads by Justin Rio. Justin is a perfectionist's perfectionist. Not only are his skills amazing, he attempts to do every repair exactly as it was done by the factory and he documents all the problems of fitment and how he solved them. Many of his posts show how much work that requires, and knowledge. Most of the time the replacement panels he uses need modifications. I think he uses mostly panels made by Trevor's Hammer Works, but they are not perfect even if they are the best available.
Also, wrt the corner radius of your panel: the corners get leaded, or you can weld a bead on the edge.
Also, wrt the corner radius of your panel: the corners get leaded, or you can weld a bead on the edge.
- Dennis Vogel
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
Thanks for that suggestion Adam. I See Wray has several videos on YouTube!. I'll check those out.Adam Wright wrote: ↑Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:25 pm If you're seeking perfection, go see my friend Wray, he teaches a class on perfection.
I already took a couple day TIG welding class with Tom Perazzo. He's been super helpful and a nice guy to boot.
Up next, I'm planning to take a metal working class with Ron Covell. I've read good things about him, and he's driving distance for me.
I have no illusion that I'll achieve perfection. I figure the better material I start with, the less I can screw up. I would like to get it good enough that it's hard for people to determine what was original and what I replaced / repaired. Time will tell. Probably a long, looong, time.
1960 356 S90 Sunroof Coupe
1970 914-6
2014 Carrera S
1970 914-6
2014 Carrera S
- Adam Wright
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
I think Ron and Wray are friends.Dennis Vogel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:10 pmThanks for that suggestion Adam. I See Wray has several videos on YouTube!. I'll check those out.Adam Wright wrote: ↑Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:25 pm If you're seeking perfection, go see my friend Wray, he teaches a class on perfection.
I already took a couple day TIG welding class with Tom Perazzo. He's been super helpful and a nice guy to boot.
Up next, I'm planning to take a metal working class with Ron Covell. I've read good things about him, and he's driving distance for me.
I have no illusion that I'll achieve perfection. I would like to get it good enough that it's hard for people to determine what was original and what I replaced / repaired. Time will tell. Probably a long, looong, time.
As far as Tig, you will probably do better with Mig welding. It's easier to do a better job with Mig then Tig for the average dude welding in his spare time. Yes, Tig is better, but so is driving Formula 1, but it doesn't mean it's easy.
www.unobtanium-inc.com
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
- Harlan Halsey
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
I would say your expectations of perfection are unrealistic. Replacement panels from Porsche, back when the cars were new required "fitting". I think you are on the right track in taking lessons in welding, but as in everything else, you actually learn by doing. One cannot learn to weld competently in a weekend, but only with practice. Hammered gas welding was the way before TIG. TIG welding, hammered can do as good a job. MIG welding is the modern way because it is fast. There may be welders who can do acceptable work with MIG, but usually they glob metal on and rely on grinding the weld flat afterwards. This leads to buying Bondo by the gallon.
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- 356 Fan
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
have you check out Greg Newton Restorations? I have not used his panels yet, but from speaking with Greg, looking at pictures of his panels, and talking with others that have used them, they appear to be the nicest on the market.
but as others have said...reproduction panels are never perfect, and if you're chasing perfection then its up to you to learn the necessary skills.
but as others have said...reproduction panels are never perfect, and if you're chasing perfection then its up to you to learn the necessary skills.
- Greg Newton
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Re: Replacement Sheet Metal - Realistic Expectations
Thanks for the recommendation Jake.
As the majority of what I fabricate is for pre-A, I have three different styled door bottoms that were used through years 50 to 55.
They all have the appropriate holes in them to match the corresponding year of manufacture and of course they are all curved at the outer flange where the door skin meets the rocker panel.
Even the late pre-A ones I make have the indentation marking to allocate the inner door structure position before welding. Just like the factory.
Here are the three different left-hand door bottoms from 1950 to 55.
As the majority of what I fabricate is for pre-A, I have three different styled door bottoms that were used through years 50 to 55.
They all have the appropriate holes in them to match the corresponding year of manufacture and of course they are all curved at the outer flange where the door skin meets the rocker panel.
Even the late pre-A ones I make have the indentation marking to allocate the inner door structure position before welding. Just like the factory.
Here are the three different left-hand door bottoms from 1950 to 55.