Creaking And Groaning

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John Clarke
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Creaking And Groaning

#1 Post by John Clarke »

Sounds a bit like Me 😆
But on a recent weekend away with the 356 (61 T5 B Coupe) At parking / manoeuvring speeds the car has developed a creaking sound from the rear. Not sure if it's coming from the Torsion Bar Rubber Bushes or the shocks. We have Red Konis all round and had the harder Shore Rubber Torsion Bushes installed a couple of years back.
Any ideas ? Wondered whether to remove the torsion housing caps and load with Rubber Grease.
Thanks for any Replies
Regards Jay
 

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Ken Tuvman
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#2 Post by Ken Tuvman »

Hi Jay - I also have a T5B 1961 - had a similar issue but maybe not exactly same - car had sat for many years - had the creaking and although we haven’t overhauled the rear torsion bar the rubber beneath caps was inspected & not in bad shape - driving car over 1000 miles this summer eliminated the squeaky sound but simultaneously I used torque dude to retorque rear axle nuts - left side was way below recommended torque value of 350-400#

Torquing rear axle nuts did eliminate squeaking sound.
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John Clarke
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#3 Post by John Clarke »

Good Call Ken.
Hadn't thought of that. Will have a look for the Torque Wrench and check. Do You tighten to 375 and tighten if the pin doesn't line up. Can't Recall.
Thanks Jay
 

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Martin Benade
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#4 Post by Martin Benade »

A shot of penetrating oil on and behind the spring plates in the bushing area can help, as a test. That’s not very good for the rubber but might either fix it or show you what needs replacing.
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Ken Tuvman
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#5 Post by Ken Tuvman »

John Clarke wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:06 pm Good Call Ken.
Hadn't thought of that. Will have a look for the Torque Wrench and check. Do You tighten to 375 and tighten if the pin doesn't line up. Can't Recall.
Thanks Jay
Jay - I don’t back up nut - just move forward in small increments until hole will allow cotter pin
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#6 Post by Steve Proctor »

Ken Tuvman wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:47 pm Hi Jay - I also have a T5B 1961 - had a similar issue but maybe not exactly same - car had sat for many years - had the creaking and although we haven’t overhauled the rear torsion bar the rubber beneath caps was inspected & not in bad shape - driving car over 1000 miles this summer eliminated the squeaky sound but simultaneously I used torque dude to retorque rear axle nuts - left side was way below recommended torque value of 350-400#

Torquing rear axle nuts did eliminate squeaking sound.
I had a similar problem that became very apparent at the Porsche 50th anniversary at Monterey. Though installed with a cotter pin so the nut could not turn, the hub was not fully captured / clamped. What was the problem? The axle nuts had been properly torqued and the castellated nut secured with cotter pin could not turn when the transmission was rebuilt. I learned that there had been a run of the rear seal kits with improperly hardened washers and that over time, they tended to compress, resulting in the improper clearance. From Monterey, I drove to San Francisco to visit my daughter and did not realize that I was literally a block or two from Alan Klingen's shop, the Stable. Thankfully, local Max Handley had turned me on to a shop in Novato that retorqued the nut enough to get me back to Tucson. Once back home, I found that the improper running clearance had allowed the rear hub to work back and forth against the splines on the axle. Thankfully it was the hub that was sacrificed and not the axle tube. New kit, good used drum, proper torque, good for the last 24 years.

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Al Zim
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#7 Post by Al Zim »

ASSUMING (an interesting word) that you replaced the axle tube EXACTLY as it was remove and that it had never been changed since it left the factory you might get lucky and bring the rear axle into a configuration that places the front and rear wheels in a parallel configuration. If not then you need an alignment. ZIMZ does not encourage alignment with string on a garage floor. Garage floors are usually not flat.
Do not forget that the front end is probably worn out! King and Link Pin replacement without the use of factory measuring tools is usually not satisfactory. Zim
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#8 Post by Bruce Smith »

Hi Al. My garage floor is flat, and I've been doing string alignment for years.
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#9 Post by Wes Bender »

Correct Bruce. I have been doing it that way too. A plumb bob and some masking tape and a tape measure and an alignment chart you're good. It's nice that Al has the expensive alignment device and if I were nearer to him I would probably have him check my alignment. He would find it to be correct. These are relatively simple cars and easily adjustable if you know how.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#10 Post by Al Zim »

I look through the factory tool catalogue for 356 cars...I see in the Porsche shop manual VW tools that are necessary to assemble Porsche automobiles. It is hard for me to forget the thousands of dollars that were spent on alignment equipment that did not work because the 356 had to be lifted on to the equipment. With the older alignment equipment an annual leveling was necessary. This was done with a surveyors transit. Wes, Take some time to analyze the area of wear on the front end of the car every time it bounces. Which measuring tools do you need so you can correct this situation and how would you go about doing that? How do you correct for case shuffle? With as much as 68 years of abuse can the car heal itself? Zim
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#11 Post by Vic Skirmants »

AL; you're getting tiring!

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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#12 Post by John Clarke »

Yes Al, We know you have all the equipment. But Any Ideas on my Creaking Rear ? 🤔
Regards Jay
 

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Bruce Smith
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#13 Post by Bruce Smith »

Jay - I'm with the camp that suspects torsion bar bushings. Had this on a few cars.
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John Clarke
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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#14 Post by John Clarke »

Thanks Bruce
Going to check the Drum Torque to the hubs and will have the Caps off the Torsion Housings. I have 'Rubber Grease' So should I load them up?
Cheers Jay
 

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Re: Creaking And Groaning

#15 Post by Martin Benade »

If you can get them easily you could do a halfway job and change the outer rubber once the covers are off. I don’t think rubber grease is necessary but it wouldn’t harm anything.
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