Convertible D 86007

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Leo Dreisilker
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Re: Convertible D 86007

#46 Post by Leo Dreisilker » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:41 pm

Attached are two photos. The one is out of another A car(second photo) and the rusty bracket between the bezel and cable gland is what I need or need to make. I don't know how it functions with the wind shield wiper knob. Can someone advise how the knob locks in place for full speed?
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Cable !.jpg
 

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Convertible D 86007

#47 Post by Vic Skirmants » Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:48 am

I thought those were one speed only?

DaveErickson
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Re: Convertible D 86007

#48 Post by DaveErickson » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:11 pm

Leo, my wiper assembly does not have any cable. Maybe post your question in the main forum; someone is likely to recognize it.

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Re: Convertible D 86007

#49 Post by DaveErickson » Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:19 pm

Been making progress. The car came back from AI the first week in August with a new interior, very nicely done. Rebuilt engine was installed last week, and this week was preparation for the windshield install. I bought a new windshield from Stoddard's, and it did not match the original, not enough curvature. Bill Oldham listed one in the classifieds, and it was a perfect side by side match, so even though it is not a Sigla, I bought it and today it went into the frame. Tomorrow Gary Delahanty is coming over so we can put it in. Plan is to be very gentle with the bolts and center pull bar.

Getting the window into the frame took three tries, it was a learning process. I used soap and water as lube, which worked fine. I used the shipping box for assembly, it worked perfect to support the glass while the frame was slid in place. The gasket was installed on the windshield,soaped, then the windshield frame was slid in place. First time I discovered the drivers side needed a bit of bending to slide on easily, so off the frame came and with a foot on the left corner, pulling up on the top, a very little bend solved the problem. Second time, I soaped the window gasket on the windshield side as well as the outside, and could not hold it in place while trying to slide the frame on. So after rinsing and installing the gasket on the windshield without soap, then soaping the outside, the third time worked fine. Photos below:
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The car is ready for windshield installation tomorrow:
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Harlan Halsey
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Re: Convertible D 86007

#50 Post by Harlan Halsey » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:21 am

Dave,
Two points, 1) There used to be a rumor that the Roadster cowl had more curvature than the D. Therefor Roadster Windshields were a little shorter top to bottom in the middle. Back when I replaced the WS in my D (85519) I had some difficulty getting the bottom rubber to cover the bottom of the WS. And 2), The aluminum trim I got from Stoddard was too hard to make the 2-dimensional bend at the end without annealing the aluminum first.
Good Luck

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Re: Convertible D 86007

#51 Post by DaveErickson » Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:29 pm

Harlan, the shortness issue cropped up. More to say after a summary of what we ran into:

Today Gary, Alan and I worked at installing the windshield in the D. We weren't successful, but after speaking to an installer, I think I will try again tomorrow.

We had two windshields to work with: a Stoddard's windshield and one purchased from Bill Oldham, which had a Chinese label on it. Bill's windshield was the best match to the original in overall curvature, but it was 1/2cm shorter top to bottom. The bottom gasket we used was made by IM and is a lot softer than the one sold by Stoddard's. We used lots of soap and water.

Our approach was to install the top gasket on the glass, then the glass into the frame, then install the bottom gasket and post gaskets, then install into the car. That seemed like it would be the approach that would be least stressful on the glass, but with both windshields, getting the glass fully seated in the frame before installing in the car did not happen. We even briefly tried using a pair of pipe clamps to pull the glass up the last ¼" so that we had good overlap all the way around.

The main problem we had with the Stoddard's glass was getting the glass to go into the center of the top frame... The glass was in front of the top frame at center top, and even applying inward force on the glass we couldn't get it to stay in. The sides of the glass were really tight in the window posts, so it seemed like the glass was too long. The sides of the windshield are not straight, they have a curve and the post has a matching curve, so it appeared that the glass had stopped when the curve matched the post. We got further with the windshield purchased from Bill Oldham (Chinese origin), but it was ½ cm shorter and the glass was not in the bottom gasket on one side when we tried to install it on the car, and the bottom gasket would not slide forward into position against the stop, it was hung up on the dash vents and vinyl of the dash, etc. We did not try using the post bolts or center post to pull it into position.

So the installer I spoke to said the center top is a real struggle, and you need to use the window post bolts and center post to pull it all together, which clearly puts a lot of stress on the glass if you can't get it to go by hand.

I'm considering taking the Stoddard's windshield to a glass shop to have ⅛" removed from each end, following the contour. but tomorrow I will try again, using the Chinese glass and the post bolts to pull it together.

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Harlan Halsey
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Re: Convertible D 86007

#52 Post by Harlan Halsey » Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:28 am

Dave,
It is not clear to me what your problem is.
However, the windshield must end up stress free. That means that the glass must fit the frame. If it doesn't the glass will probably crack. I think that the shop manual directs you to bend the frame a bit if the glass wouldn't be centered. Back in the day, quality control was pretty good, and new glass matched the old glass. Then Stuttgart Glass in New York was the source, and they insisted that the Roadster and the D windshields were the same, and only stocked Roadster WS. They were not easy to dear with.
Obviously, this can be a can of worms. If the glass is out of spec and you bend the frame to fit, the frame may not fit the mounting holes or the top.
I would first fit the frame to the car and top. Then check the fit of the glass to the frame. If all is OK then the glass with the seal should slide into the frame pretty easily. There's not much compression on the glass when installed. You have to hold the glass up into the seal in the middle when you go to install the frame into the body. If you use force with the post mounts or the center rod you are very likely to crack the glass. You may be able to shim the cowl rubber a bit near the center to get coverage. (Speedster windshields are much more fragile. I recall a case where they cracked three in a row before getting one installed crack free. Then returned the next day to find it cracked!)
Good Luck
BTW A guy I know takes a month to fully tighten a WS. He's obviously a believer in letting the seal find its place.

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Re: Convertible D 86007

#53 Post by DaveErickson » Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:35 pm

Success. The Chinese made glass was a good fit to the frame, the only issue is the height is less than the original (5mm). This is what it looks like currently, and my plan is to remove the tape and let the window settle on its own, driving around. If the bottom gasket continues to ride high over both dips in the cowl, I will push it down. Right now, the windshield is fully inserted into both gaskets. Hopefully installing the aluminum trim may deflect the front edge down also. Getting the windshield in was easy today, my wife helped me lift it into place, then I snugged each side and tightened the fasteners. The post bolts are quite tight. The center rod was tightened just enough that the rear view mirror could be adjusted without rotating the rod.

The only change to my procedure was this one: I used three pipe clamps to pull the windshield into the frame before installing it, then taped the glass tightly in place with packaging tape. The tape I was using yesterday kept coming off, so that may be the key.

I still need to seal the corners, my gasket mitering wasn't perfect. I am thinking of using CR Laurence's Windshield and Repair Sealant, which is a black butyl product. Suggestions appreciated.

IMG_0670.jpeg
Butyl_Sealer.jpg

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Re: Convertible D 86007

#54 Post by DaveErickson » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:29 pm

The bottom gasket slid into place overnight, just from the weight of the glass after removing the tape. Installing the trim went pretty well, contrary to what I have read in other posts. If I had it to do again, I would do it the same way: install the windshield and then the trim. The key to installing the trim is to get it started correctly, with the trim corner in the groove, overlapping the string and the rubber folded down just a bit. Lubrication is important, I used dial soap/water 50/50. A nice soft pliable bottom gasket from IM is essential. The only fly in the ointment is the pair of aluminum trim clips that go on the windshield wiper posts. I put a washer in below the rubber to cover the oblong hole in the piece. The rubber parts don't really match the angle of the cowl and the post, but they are Stoddard's part for roadsters/speedsters/D. I need to redo that, it is as ugly as sin. If I did it wrong, or you have suggestions, please let me know.
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Spencer Harris
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Re: Convertible D 86007

#55 Post by Spencer Harris » Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:05 pm

DaveErickson wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:35 pm
my plan is to remove the tape and let the window settle on its own, driving around.
I'm happy to read that the seal settled after removing the tape and you have the trim installed. "Driving around" without the lower trim in place had me worried - though I'm not familiar with Roadster windshields. Good work!
Spencer Harris
San Joaquin Valley, CA.

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Re: Convertible D 86007

#56 Post by DaveErickson » Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:22 pm

Thanks Spencer.

I found one more issue: how much should a Convertible D windshield flex when the top is latched? My drivers post moves back about ¼" at the top. I tried loosening the drivers side post bolt and center post, then attaching the top, and surprisingly it did not make a difference. Perhaps the top tightened up in the last week while I was working on the windshield. Is there any adjustment in the top, or is it just a matter of stretching and some heat, ie. letting it sit in the sun a few hours?

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Maiden Voyage

#57 Post by DaveErickson » Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:38 am

The D's first trip was a lot of fun. We went to WCH, which was a 300 mile round trip; I just did the first oil change. We met some wonderful people at WCH and had a great time.

The car ran pretty well, but there were a few first trip glitches. The odometer did not work. The fuel tank gauge goes from full to half full after using 2.5 gal., but it works ok the rest of the way so I think I can live with it. The speedometer read 10% high, even though I am running Vredstein Sprint Classic 165-15 tires. The headlight adjustment was too low when the car is loaded with two people and tools and fire extinguisher in the front. I didn't really get a chance to drive the car in the proper speeds and RPMs, since the RPMs were limited due to the new engine break-in. I constantly found myself trying to accelerate from low to mid 2000's, which it did not like. The pins in the cable to the oxygen sensor pulled out so I did not get to use the new fuel/air ratio gauge. You would think that a gauge would include a wiring diagram with pinouts, but no such luck. Always something.

I'm planning to change the gearing back to what the car had originally (716/2 with BBAB), so that will give it some pep around town and on the local 55mph highways. Currently it has a 741 with BBBC and at freeway speed it is under 3000 RPM. I found a 716/0 transmission from Jonathan Schneiderman and a 741 3A gear set on Ebay so I am part way there. Still need to find a 4B gear set and disassemble the 716 to see if it uses 644 gears or 741 gears. If the 716 uses 644 gears, I think I have the option of transferring the internals from the 741 to the 716. If I'm wrong please let me know.

On the way home from WCH, we had a few rain showers, but we were prepared: duct tape on the windshield corners stopped any rain from coming in onto the dash. The windshield needs to come out again, it is sitting a bit too low and you can see the top edge of the glass if you peel up the upper gasket in the corners. I plan to glue ¼" rubber strips in the bottom window channel to raise it up. When thats done the 4 corners will get sealed with the black goop.

On the positive side, the car handled very well, no issues noted. The new front disc brakes and dual cylinder M/C from Al Zim worked great, the front end is nice and tight (rebuilt king and link pins, new sway bar bushings), and the rear brakes and suspension are working fine. The Koni shocks were a jarring experience, every wrinkle in the road could be felt. I guess 1.5 turns out is too much, so I will try a softer setting. But the cornering was great, no complaints. The new 3-point non-retracting seatbelts worked out fine. The seats were quite comfortable and not too soft, so Autos International's work not only looks great but it helps restore the ride. The gearbox was nice and quiet and shifted well into all gears, although 3rd gear had a "whirring" noise. The gearbox leaks a bit so it will benefit from some attention. The cylinder head temperature gauge worked well and was quite interesting. You could see the head heat up when climbing a hill and cool when coasting. The oil pressure gauge also worked great and provided a lot more confidence than the idiot light. The LED lights worked quite well, including the 12V headlights (with 6-12V converters). Gas mileage for the trip was over 25mpg.

Anyway, it is nice to get this old lady back on the road after 25 years sitting in a body shop warehouse.

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Convertible D 86007

#58 Post by Vic Skirmants » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:47 am

Glad things went so well. The 716 uses 741 gears.

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Re: Convertible D 86007

#59 Post by DaveErickson » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:38 am

Vic Skirmants wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:47 am
Glad things went so well. The 716 uses 741 gears.
Thanks Vic. I read a post of yours that said the early 716’s in D’s had 644 gears; using up the old stock of parts I guess. I read another post of yours that said you cannot use 741 shift rails in a 716. I interpreted that to mean that if the 716 had 644 gears you cannot use 741 shift rails.

I feel like I owe a big thanks to all the people who contribute to the forum. Without the repository of knowledge here, I would have had a much, much harder time getting the D back on the road. I learned a lot here from the people who have been down this road before, sometimes many times, and shared their experience.

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Re: Convertible D 86007

#60 Post by Jon Bunin » Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:59 pm

DaveErickson wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:38 am
Thanks Vic. I read a post of yours that said the early 716’s in D’s had 644 gears; using up the old stock of parts I guess.
Dave, I'm sure Vic never said that.
Convertible D's had both 644 and 716 transmissions. Porsche didn't use 644 gears in 716 transmissions.
Jon Bunin

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