Restore license plate or not

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David Aronson
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Re: Restore license plate or not

#31 Post by David Aronson »

Here is the black plate issuance location information that Jan steered us to.
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location of black plate issuance in California
location of black plate issuance in California
Location of black plate issue CA.jpg (158.26 KiB) Viewed 969 times
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa (3.0 SC motor)
83 911SC (Concours award winner, still)
95 993
09 Carrera S
69 Triumph TR6, 2004 BMW K1200GT, 2012 R1200RT, 2013 MOTO GUZI V7 RACER
64 VW coupe
Vacaville Ca.

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David Aronson
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Re: Restore license plate or not

#32 Post by David Aronson »

So, this looks like the plates were issued geographically and not chronologically. Can I assume that? Or, are all the plates in that alphabetic range only issued in the region it states, regardless of the year....
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa (3.0 SC motor)
83 911SC (Concours award winner, still)
95 993
09 Carrera S
69 Triumph TR6, 2004 BMW K1200GT, 2012 R1200RT, 2013 MOTO GUZI V7 RACER
64 VW coupe
Vacaville Ca.

User avatar
David Aronson
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Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Location: Vacaville, Ca
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Re: Restore license plate or not

#33 Post by David Aronson »

Kardex arrived....Car is and was a California car. First owner name is illegible. It lists a delivery date and a certificate of inspection date. I am not sure of what these dates represent. Anyone with information on the SAn Francisco dealer?
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Kartex 200831.jpg
Kartex 200831.jpg (361.55 KiB) Viewed 965 times
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa (3.0 SC motor)
83 911SC (Concours award winner, still)
95 993
09 Carrera S
69 Triumph TR6, 2004 BMW K1200GT, 2012 R1200RT, 2013 MOTO GUZI V7 RACER
64 VW coupe
Vacaville Ca.

Eric Lenius
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:12 pm
Tag: More is More
Location: Port Orchard, WA

Re: Restore license plate or not

#34 Post by Eric Lenius »

I think Porsche Car Pacific was the west coast importation distributor rather than the dealer. My SC has the same thing on the Kardex but was originally sold by Mozart in Palo Alto. So, maybe a bit of a dead end there.

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David Aronson
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Re: Restore license plate or not

#35 Post by David Aronson »

Eric, do you know which date represents the "sales date". The COA indicated the manufacture date as 8/18/61. So that would be the first date indicated. So, by elimination, it would look as if the car was actually sold in 63 as I had suspected.
What do you think....I did locate the address, no longer a valid street but within a mile or so of where i purchased the car in 1969. Name is not readable...
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa (3.0 SC motor)
83 911SC (Concours award winner, still)
95 993
09 Carrera S
69 Triumph TR6, 2004 BMW K1200GT, 2012 R1200RT, 2013 MOTO GUZI V7 RACER
64 VW coupe
Vacaville Ca.

Eric Lenius
356 Fan
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:12 pm
Tag: More is More
Location: Port Orchard, WA

Re: Restore license plate or not

#36 Post by Eric Lenius »

David,

Abname-Besch. is the delivery date to the buyer. The purchase date. So, yes, your assumption is correct, the car was bought on the second of February 1963. Back to our previous discussions, an August 1961 build car is a 1962 titled car conventionally. So, 1962 car, bought first in 1963. If I were you, I would go and research a 1963 Sacramento city directory and see who is listed as living at that address. First name is James. I am betting you will be able to clarify the first buyer anyhow.

Eric

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David Aronson
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Re: Restore license plate or not

#37 Post by David Aronson »

The following is copied from PCA history documents. Author is unknown. If you know who to credit please chime in.

SACRAMENTO AREA PORSCHE DEALER HIISTORY.

The history of Porsche dealers in Sacramento is a little hazy – in those days no one was taking notes. So here's the results of my detective work. Bob Clancy, the original owner of my 1955 356 Speedster, bought the car new from Oxford Motors, 1501 “I”Street, Sacramento (behind the Memorial Auditorium) which was owned and operated by Sammy Weiss. He was the local Porsche dealer in 1955; perhaps the first in Sacramento. Oxford Motors also was the dealer for most British cars. Sammy was a big-time successful racer, and on the west coast did most of his events initially in a Porsche 550 RS Spyder and then a Porsche RSK Spyder.
At about the same time, in 1954, 19 year-old George Grinzewitsch, Sr. arrived in Sacramento fresh from Germany, with no inkling that he would someday own one of Sacramento's most successful automotive ventures, the Von Housen Automotive Group. Despite the fact that he spoke little English and knew little about cars,
Grinzewitsch managed to talk his way into a job as a mechanic and later as a service manager for Oxford Motors. While working for Weiss, Grinzewitsch also developed an interest in road racing and became a top-ranked professional driver, winning several North American driving titles. In late 1958, Grinzewitsch left Oxford Motors and opened his own auto parts and repair shop named Von Housen, which in German means "from the better house." Completing the "racer's shop" stamp on Oxford Motors was Gordon Glyer, Sammy's chief salesman who was also a successful Ferrari road racing driver.
Sammy kept the Porsche franchise until late 1959 when he put up the RSK Spyder for sale in MotoRacing, a southern California sports car racing publication. To explain the sale Sammy said in the ad, "The reason for the sale is the withdrawal of the Porsche Franchise." At the same time, Porsche Cars Pacific was formed, with Reynold C. Johnson president, to be the Porsche distributor to eight dealers in Northern California. Sadly, the next year, June 4, 1960, Sammy was killed in a Cooper Monaco during practice at Laguna Seca at the old Turn 4, now Turn 6 (left turn to go up the hill to the corkscrew).
In 1962 (perhaps since 1960), the Volkswagen-Porsche dealer in Sacramento was Haines Motors at 2241 Fulton Avenue. Established originally as the first VW dealership in Sacramento by Bob and Charlie Haines in about 1954 and located in North Sacramento across the street from Wyn Robertson's Continental Auto Service, the business was expanded to include Porsche and moved to the Fulton Avenue location. After I arrived home from France in late December 1961, I took my 1961 356B coupe to Haines at the Fulton address for warranty work. Also in 1962, Wes Lasher and Richard "Dick" Niello were partners in the Lasher-Niello Company, a VW- Porsche dealership at 1701 “K”Street, Sacramento. Both were early VW dealers in Sacramento, Niello started in 1954 and Lasher in 1955.
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa (3.0 SC motor)
83 911SC (Concours award winner, still)
95 993
09 Carrera S
69 Triumph TR6, 2004 BMW K1200GT, 2012 R1200RT, 2013 MOTO GUZI V7 RACER
64 VW coupe
Vacaville Ca.

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David Aronson
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Location: Vacaville, Ca
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Re: Restore license plate or not

#38 Post by David Aronson »

I did a search and found a pdf of the 1962 telephone directory. There was the name, James Ontjer, same address. A further search revealed he is stll listed as living in Saccramento. Now trying to contact. Would love to hear about what happened to car during the 6 years prior to my purchasing the car.
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa (3.0 SC motor)
83 911SC (Concours award winner, still)
95 993
09 Carrera S
69 Triumph TR6, 2004 BMW K1200GT, 2012 R1200RT, 2013 MOTO GUZI V7 RACER
64 VW coupe
Vacaville Ca.

Eric Lenius
356 Fan
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:12 pm
Tag: More is More
Location: Port Orchard, WA

Re: Restore license plate or not

#39 Post by Eric Lenius »

Great! Solidifying the history.

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David Aronson
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Re: Restore license plate or not

#40 Post by David Aronson »

Success, just off the phone with Jim Ontjes' wife Patty. She talked about her late husband's passion for automobiles. She remembered the car as well. She said, " Oh, that car, Jim bought it a year or so before we were married. I was so anoid with it. We left for our honeymoon, with all the people wishing us on, in that ugly yellow car." During our conversation, she advised me that she had him have it repainted. So, that is the reason it was white when I bought it a few years later. What fun getting the history filled in. I will ask her for a picture of Jim for the records. She remembered that he purchased it from Neillo. It was serviced by Checkered Flag Service. Next, tracking down the service records. FUN!
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa (3.0 SC motor)
83 911SC (Concours award winner, still)
95 993
09 Carrera S
69 Triumph TR6, 2004 BMW K1200GT, 2012 R1200RT, 2013 MOTO GUZI V7 RACER
64 VW coupe
Vacaville Ca.

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Jerry Baumchen
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Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:41 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon

Re: Restore license plate or not

#41 Post by Jerry Baumchen »

Hi David,

Re: 'FUN!'

I bet it is. You might just end up with a true, total history of your car; one of the few to ever do so.

Keep us posted,

Jerry Baumchen

Eric Lenius
356 Fan
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:12 pm
Tag: More is More
Location: Port Orchard, WA

Re: Restore license plate or not

#42 Post by Eric Lenius »

Go man Go!

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