My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.

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Vic Skirmants · #16 Post by **Vic Skirmants** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:08 am

Nail holes. Yep, factory. For the carpeting.
Bruce, chime in here: Does he weld them up and punch new ones. or leave them open?

Bruce Baker · #17 Post by **Bruce Baker** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:41 pm

vic skirmants wrote:Nail holes. Yep, factory. For the carpeting.
Bruce, chime in here: Does he weld them up and punch new ones. or leave them open?

Sorry to see this late. If those little holes are still a concern and are now primed, they can get a touch of caulk or left open to 'breathe.' The chances of hitting those spots again are minimal. The factory installers hid nails wherever they needed them and you can, too. They were VERY hard spiral sharp nails that become VERY hard to remove, so it's good they are out but it's not important to worry about those old holes....unless you aren't reinstalling carpets.

David Gensler · #18 Post by **David Gensler** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:04 am

Tom,
I went ahead and closed up most of those nail holes. Those that I could get to (which was most of them, I hammer/dollied flat. Then just takes a moment to melt them closed with the TIG. Very clean this way. Though I would agree with Bruce that it is not really necessary. Looking forward to more photos.
DG

Steve Harrison · #19 Post by **Steve Harrison** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:22 am

Love it Tom,

Glad you're sharing your restoration journey with everyone. I really like this new projects section. More and more people are jumping in and showing what they're been up to. Everyone has their own work style, pace, approach. Absolutely love it.

I know what you mean about sometimes having to take a look back at what's done. Sometimes you look back and think, "Man,.. if I had to start again,..I don't know.." But then it's Forward Go.

I see you're using Cleco's. They're handy eh?

And ditto on the nail holes. When I pulled the carpets on my car there were all these nails holding them in,.. and I didn't understand. Then checking around, hearing about the factory nails, made me realize that no one had taken the carpets out of this beast,...since 1955!

I also like picturing the image of your car going down the highway in the rotisserie cage. Now that's something you don't see every day. Probably caused a lot of rubber necking and thumbs ups.

Tom Perazzo · #20 Post by **Tom Perazzo** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:40 am

Thank you to everyone for following my progress, advice and kind words. Its been on hold for the past few weeks due to several visitors and family in town. I guess its the good and bad news of living in a nice place.

While cruising the Autotopia ride at Disneyland, I couldn't stop thinking about finishing my car and enjoying the roads again.

I will get those nail holes fixed up in short order. I have also made a dimple die to reproduce the drain holes in the longitudinals.

I love to post new pictures, because that means the project is moving forward. In some ways this forum actually encourages me to work harder!

David Gensler · #21 Post by **David Gensler** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:31 am

Tom,
Looking forward to your new pics. I agree with your comments about this forum inspiring you to work harder! Its helping get me motivated too.

Too bad they don't have little 356's on the Autotopia Highway.

Appreciated your elaborating on the cage. I've got a hankering to build one of those gadgets.

DG

Tom Perazzo · #22 Post by **Tom Perazzo** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:56 pm

A little more progress was made today. Karmann cars came from the factory with drain holes in the longitudinal, but today's replacement panels don't include them. A machinist friend of mine made a nice dimple die to create these features.

Here is the original dimple laying next to the new ones.

And the die to create the dimple.

It took a few iterations to get the final hole size correct due to the stretch the material takes when subjected to a few tons of force. The die was used in a vertical hydraulic press.

Small details and slow progress, but fun once the desired result is obtained!

Next up is the rear seat pans. Anyone know where to get these? I'm already mentally prepared to test my own fabrication skills and make my own. But I could be talked out of it if someone has a lead on an affordable set.

Thanks for watching.

Adam Wright · #23 Post by **Adam Wright** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:11 pm

Trevor can make them www.356panels.com
I also think Mike at Restoration Design is working on them www.restoration-design.com

Tom Perazzo · #24 Post by **Tom Perazzo** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:47 pm

Finally some progress. I feel like I've been MIA for some time now. On a difficulty scale of 1-10, I would say the rear seat pan replacement is at least a 7. Granted, there's many repairs I haven't completed yet, but all the heavy contours and getting them to all line up for welding was a chore. Lots of re-shaping and trial fitting for sure. Below are some pictures:

As luck would have it, the inner side wall was too thin, so it had to be replaced.

I cleaned and painted this interior cavity liberally with POR-15. I'm glad I cut out this section, because there was lots of rust and debri hanging out inside this cavity. I certainly believe there is no such thing as a rust free 356. All these internal cavities are perfect for rust and the only way to inspect these areas is to cut them open.

I got a pair of these from Trevor's Hammerworks

However, the front flange was too short and the side flange had to be reworked towards the rear.

Probably overkill, but I added metal to make the part the same as the factory one.

I also had to add some metal because my pans were rusted higher than the replacement pans. These are all TIG welds.

It's hard to see in this picture, but the rear side flange was about 1/4" off of the side wall. I had to make relief cuts and re-form this portion of the replacement pan.

Now, it looks like this and fits better.

All welded in!

Underside!

Light grinding to finish the inside. The picture tends to make this look messy, but I was very happy how smooth this repair came out. Once its primered, I think it will look better for the camera. The repair is virtually undetectable!

I hope the other side goes faster!

Tom Perazzo · #25 Post by **Tom Perazzo** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:17 pm

As a little aside, I welded some 20 Ga scrap together two ways.....MIG and TIG. Easy, since I just had both welders out performing the seat pan replacement above.

I don't want to create a big welding debate here. I use both and each has pro's and con's. Rather, I hope to help others who may be new to welding sheetmetal or at least new to TIG.

Many times in pictures, its hard to see scale especially when zooming in on welds.

The picture below shows a MIG weld and a TIG welds right next to each other! The TIG is on the left and can be really neat and tidy! The shiny TIG weld section are hammer marks needed to flatten the panel.

Here's the backside.

MIG certainly requires more grinding. But its great for filling in butt welds with large gaps. This sample had a gap of about .04". The TIG gap was less at 0 to .020". TIG is horrible if the gap gets much more than .06"

Tig is sometimes flat or can be almost flat after hammering.

A few comments:

The TIG weld usually causes more distortion. You can see the heat affected zone is wider than the MIG

The TIG weld is not as hard as MIG and can be hammered to re-stretch the metal after the unavoidable shrink when weld cools.

TIG is slower and requires perfect panel fit.

MIG is more forgiving and doesn't require a foot pedal and an extra hand for filler rod.

Phil Planck · #26 Post by **Phil Planck** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:24 pm

Tom

After now recognizing your name from our carb cross bar emails, I am just catching up with your great post. You are doing a great job, and are a very accomplished welder. I do have a question on the hammering of the mig welds. How quickly after you do a weld do you hammer it? Seems to me the weld cools pretty fast, and by the time you lay down the torch and pick up and locate hammer and dolly the weld is pretty cool. So, if you are doing a long butt weld, do you hammer after each fill in between tacks?

I am just about finished with structural repair on my 63 T6, but still have some outer panel replacements to make. I have done the lower door replacements and filed my mig, butt welds down instead of grinding. Not a lot of distortion due to a large fixture to absorb heat, but is does need some hammer/dolly work here and there. My next big outer panel will be replacing the rear front fender section just in front of the door.

Thanks - Phil Planck

Tom Perazzo · #27 Post by **Tom Perazzo** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:51 pm

Hey Phil,
Thanks for reading my post. I just realized that you are the owner of foam car. I love that project. I've been watching that thread since it started

Very nice work. I envy you having finished all the structural work.

I just looked on the web for some evidence of weld hardness, malleability, and/or workability. I found the article below by Ron Covell.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/ar ... Ron-Covell

I find that MIG welds are too big and too hard to hammer. Maybe if they are still red hot, but I'm just not that quick. One time I tried and it put divots in my cheap hammer. How do you do it? Do you use a softer alloy wire? I'm willing to learn and by no means am I an expert welder. Just learning as I go.

The point I was trying to make is that TIG welds are more workable than MIG welds. Good thing because TIG causes more distortion, but its easier to fix assuming there is good access behind the panel for a dolly.

Good results can be had by either method as you clearly have shown.

My goal is not to put down anyone's work or claim to be a know it all. My thought was to share my results and the info that was passed on to me. Mr. Joe Ruiz's project on this forum being worked on by Steve Hogue is phenomenal. Steve taught me how to TIG weld. When I showed up, I thought I was going to learn more about MIG. Ever since that day, I became a fan of TIG when practical. And to answer your question, I hammer the TIG welds only when cold or (warm:)

Best of luck on your project. Feel free to email offline if you want to talk more about welding!

Tom Perazzo · #28 Post by **Tom Perazzo** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:35 pm

More progress on the passenger side seat pan.

New side wall in place.

Had to add ears to corners of seat pans to cover heavily pitted area in original pans. Also, re-worked left rear flange and front flange as in the driver's side pans.

Thanks for watching. I hope to install on drive your 356 day! Its sad that I can't even pretend to drive mine. No floors, no seats, no steering wheel, no nothing. Anybody want to take me for ride in theirs?

Tom

David Gensler · #29 Post by **David Gensler** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:34 am

Tom,
It was nice to see these latest posts. The seat pan looks like an interesting project, and appears to be turning out well. Appreciated your comments also about mig vs. tig. Keep the photos and text coming.
Take care,
DG

Tom Perazzo · #30 Post by **Tom Perazzo** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:23 pm

A few more pictures of the finished seat pans. I think I got all the brackets and wire loom tabs in the right place, but please chime in if you seem something wrong.

One more wipe down and then the epoxy primer flies!

Anyone know what the two round impressions are on the drivers side? See arrows in pic. Just curious, why its only on one side.

Next up, engine shelf. Should be easy peazy compared to these seat pans!

Thanks for staying tuned and have a great weekend.