My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
- Tom Perazzo
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Long time no post for me. I've been putting in the Porsche time, but don't have much to show for it. I spent more time than I care to admit straightening the the drip channel and inner nose section in the battery box area. It's not perfect, but here's what I ended up with.
This car's rights side nose was replaced some time ago in the past. The shop did an ok job on the outer metal, but the inner metal was not so good. I had to section and replace some parts of the drip rail to make it right. My goal is to run my hand along the inside edge without being able to detect any accident damage and that is where I left it. I modified a few hammers and made some special dollies, but to be honest a smooth pair of pliers and a round chunk of steel worked the best. I also welded in the drain tube that the shop didn't think was important or it fell out. They brazed some stuff in, which I then cut out and re-welded new stuff in.
I got a donor latch shelf pictured below which is in much better shape than my old one, but it was trimmed too short.
I could have just run a huge fillet weld bead and made it work, but I want it to look factory so I'm carefully extending the part and forming the radius that meets up with drip channel. This is going to take me a while too. Here's where I stopped last week.
I have an extra Porsche day this week, so there's a slight chance I will get it ready to weld in before Friday. Tom Perazzo
1964 SC Coupe (under restoration)
www.ZalexIndustries.com
- Tom Perazzo
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Let's see where was I? It's been a long time since I've been able to work on the coupe due to time constraints from work. Now, I hope to resume at least one day a week. I'm way behind on the 356
I had to add a lip to my donor latch shelf so that it welded in similar to the factory method. Here it is welded into the car. I "cheated" this part in as shown in the picture below. The factory rolled the edge from the drip rail to capture the shelf. Way too hard for me, so I edge welded three pieces of sheet together. Feels good to be back in the game!
Take care,
Tom
I had to add a lip to my donor latch shelf so that it welded in similar to the factory method. Here it is welded into the car. I "cheated" this part in as shown in the picture below. The factory rolled the edge from the drip rail to capture the shelf. Way too hard for me, so I edge welded three pieces of sheet together. Feels good to be back in the game!
Take care,
Tom
Tom Perazzo
1964 SC Coupe (under restoration)
www.ZalexIndustries.com
- Phil Planck
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Great work Tom. This is the first area I tackled on Foam Car years ago, before I had the "skills" I have now. I am thinking about revisiting that area for a better result this winter. My T6 B does not have that shelf, but the inner nose was in bad shape. I am thinking about removing it to gain access to the outer nose, which has more lead in it than I like. I plan to melt out the lead and smooth out all of the small dents. Properly repair or replace the inner nose and re-install.
Phil Planck
- Tom Perazzo
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Hi Phil,
Thanks for checking out my progress. I know exactly what you're saying about the metalwork learning curve. While this isn't my first "practice" car, I've learned a tremendous amount as I go which is apparent by looking at my repairs chronologically. First thing I did was the passenger door skin and its "okay", but not great. Subsequently, I have gone back to a few other areas to touch up.
At first I was very nervous to cut into a "Porsche" even though mine is truly a beater. I used to keep the cutting to a minimum and struggle to access areas. Now, I realize its only metal and let the sparks fly!
I know some guys who are way better at me at panel shaping and they might have approached my shelf repair differently. ie rolled edge. To each is own, just stay with the methods you're comfortable with and go for it.
Here's some pictures of the inner nose that I shot epoxy primer on today. I'm happy with the results. This is the last interior body panel that had signs of accident damage, and now the damage is gone. Wahoo! The outer body near the cowl still has some accident damage probably from the same impact. That will be a project for another day, as I focus to finish the underside.
Take Care,
Thanks for checking out my progress. I know exactly what you're saying about the metalwork learning curve. While this isn't my first "practice" car, I've learned a tremendous amount as I go which is apparent by looking at my repairs chronologically. First thing I did was the passenger door skin and its "okay", but not great. Subsequently, I have gone back to a few other areas to touch up.
At first I was very nervous to cut into a "Porsche" even though mine is truly a beater. I used to keep the cutting to a minimum and struggle to access areas. Now, I realize its only metal and let the sparks fly!
I know some guys who are way better at me at panel shaping and they might have approached my shelf repair differently. ie rolled edge. To each is own, just stay with the methods you're comfortable with and go for it.
Here's some pictures of the inner nose that I shot epoxy primer on today. I'm happy with the results. This is the last interior body panel that had signs of accident damage, and now the damage is gone. Wahoo! The outer body near the cowl still has some accident damage probably from the same impact. That will be a project for another day, as I focus to finish the underside.
Take Care,
Tom Perazzo
1964 SC Coupe (under restoration)
www.ZalexIndustries.com
- Tom Perazzo
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Finally, the battery box floor is welded in. Lots of clamping and welding, but the floor is permanent now!
A floor jack goes under the car to support a bucking die. Then an air hammer on the top side.
Here's what my dies look like. I don't think the rivet set is the correct one, but I used it anyway. As I posted previously on Page 4, one of the rivets was installed from the top. Extra work, but I decided to be a copycat. That meant turning the car upside down on the rotisserie and using the same method. I didn't take a picture, but I had to use a bar to extend from the jack to go inside the battery box. Very precarious but it worked. Battery box done!
I have the solid steel rivets from Stoddard, but no extras to experiment with. These rivets require some serious force to properly clinch them. Many thanks to David Gensler for sharing his technique which worked well for me too.A floor jack goes under the car to support a bucking die. Then an air hammer on the top side.
Here's what my dies look like. I don't think the rivet set is the correct one, but I used it anyway. As I posted previously on Page 4, one of the rivets was installed from the top. Extra work, but I decided to be a copycat. That meant turning the car upside down on the rotisserie and using the same method. I didn't take a picture, but I had to use a bar to extend from the jack to go inside the battery box. Very precarious but it worked. Battery box done!
Tom Perazzo
1964 SC Coupe (under restoration)
www.ZalexIndustries.com
- Will Scheidegger
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Nice work!
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Looking for engine 600 604
'63 VW Type 1 sunroof
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'67 Jaguar S-Type
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Looking for engine 600 604
- Vic Skirmants
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Nice work! It's good to see another one coming back. The more the merrier.
Ray
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Very nice Tom. Good to see you making progress. I like that little shape you hammered out at the base of the front wall. Creates some interesting symmetry with the shape in the floor and the tow hook reinforcing plate.
Take care, and keep those photos coming!
DG
Take care, and keep those photos coming!
DG
David Gensler
- Tom Perazzo
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Will, Vic, Ray, David.....thank you for the kind words. It's more like nice AND slow . It's a good thing this car belongs to me because If I was doing this work for someone else I would have an angry customer.
Here's a picture of some extra holes. This is indicative of the hard life this car has lived. Someone must have been in a hurry to open a stuck lid???? Really, five holes on a C that is supposed to have a fail safe latch. Go figure. Hard to tell in the picture, but there's a little distortion that needs to be hammer and dollied out. I couldn't reach my long arms around to do it alone, so a buddy will be around tomorrow to help finish it smooth.
Thanks for watching my project!
Here's a picture of some extra holes. This is indicative of the hard life this car has lived. Someone must have been in a hurry to open a stuck lid???? Really, five holes on a C that is supposed to have a fail safe latch. Go figure. Hard to tell in the picture, but there's a little distortion that needs to be hammer and dollied out. I couldn't reach my long arms around to do it alone, so a buddy will be around tomorrow to help finish it smooth.
Thanks for watching my project!
Tom Perazzo
1964 SC Coupe (under restoration)
www.ZalexIndustries.com
- Tom Perazzo
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
I've been putting off installing the drivers side longitudinal and floor for over a year now. (see page 1 for longitudinal repairs and test fitting). The reason for the procrastination is that I've been afraid that the chassis may not be true. Roland's restoration book is adamant about NOT doing structural work on a rotisserie, so I decided to proceed with caution and check the chassis straightness before its too late!
I've been suspicious that something was amiss because when the casters are removed from my octagon rotisserie and the car is sitting flat it has a slight rock to it. At first I thought it must be the concrete floor, but it seemed to rock no matter where I moved it in my garage. Then I thought maybe the uprights on my rotisserie aren't equal length, but they are. This car didn't show any major wrinkles in the inner chassis to lead me to believe the car might be twisted. The car has been hit in the passenger nose and a previous owner had half of the nose replaced. Subsequently, I fixed some of the damage to the inner nose, battery box and diagonal brace. I would describe it as basic hammer and dolly repair (No hydraulic pulling or major heat needed.)
So, I started by measuring my garage floor flatness in 6 critical locations; Two front locations under the octagon uprights (sway bar attachments), two locations under the rear torsion bar tubes, and two locations under the rear octagon uprights. Tubular steel with both ends capped off where used to make a custom spirit level. I partially filled the tubes with automatic trans fluid and supported the tubes on machinist parallels at the measurement points of interest. Once the fluid stopped sloshing around, several minutes to be safe, I stuck my precision scale in the fluid and noted the level very carefully. Then I measured the far end. If the two measurements weren't the same then I shimmed it to make it level. Two tubes of custom length were used to get all six points reasonably close. I estimate that all six points are within a 1/16". This is the same method the Egyptians and Romans used to measure inclines or flatness. What does that have to do with 356’s???? I dunno, but I like the simplicity and accuracy. It beats a bubble level for sure. My garage floor needed a maximum of .100" shim. A far cry from the proper Cellete bench, but what is an amateur to do? Press on.... A sharpened stud was threaded into the the left and right torsion cover bosses and tightened with a double nuts. Once the car was supported on the floor and shims, I could measure how far off the suspension attachment points were. I measured just a tick under 3/16" or 5/32" vertical discrepancy.
I also compared the distances from front to rear suspension points using a trusty carpenter's square sliding on a square steel tube. Porsche's workshop manual gives specific measurements and tolerances. Rather than making a pointy plug to fit tightly into the front torsion tube, I just touched the outer portion of the bearing carrier with the square. The factory tolerance is 2 mm or 5/64". My car had a variation of a tick less than 1/8". Not too bad considering my Rube Goldberg methods. The odd thing is that I would expect the passenger side to be shorter from the accident, but it was actually longer than the drivers side. Go figure.
It was fairly easy to twist the car back into shape. I clamped a long wooden beam to the rear octagon and rigged a floor jack to the front octagon. Then I rigged a vertical beam to the garage rafters to prevent the front octagon from rotating. I iteratively raised the jack on the front octagon so the rear beam was about 1" off the ground intitially. Then I stepped on it. Sure enough she groaned, squeeked and got better. Next time more height on the front jack lifted the rear beam 1.5” off and I repeated until all the twist was gone. Then I intentionally upset each front corner and measured the deflection. Once the deflections were equal, then that is as good as it gets. Then I welded the longitudinal on while checking all dimensions periodically. I did rotate the car 45 deg to better access some of the bottom welds. Ron Roland recommends to begin welding at the longitudinal center and then work towards the front and rear closing panels alternating. There, now it’s done and I’m happy again.
I re-checked the front to rear measurements again and lo and behold, now it’s within factory tolerance. Hard to believe twisting would change that. Or maybe the heat induced by welding the longitudinal shrunk it into place. Also hard to believe. It could be my measurement error. The second time around I measured each side three times and kind of averaged my measurements. All were within a pencil width.
Now, lets back up a little a bit and make this long story even longer......I think the chassis may have warped when I welded the passenger side longitudinal several years ago. I did this on jack stands with the car fully loaded, ie engine trans, glass, interior, etc. Its very possible that I stressed the chassis unevenly when trying to access the bottom for welding. So, many thanks to Ron Roland for writing this great book with tons of sound advice. Indeed bad stuff can happen when doing structural metal work. He goes a step further and recommends using the doors to monitor chassis distortion. Good idea in my opinion, but I didn’t follow that advice. Mainly because my front fender edges are trashed and the doors need to be totally refitted anyway. I didn’t notice any difference in the way the doors fit after I did the passenger ‘tude on jack stands.
Also, I’m glad once again that I used the Emory octagon rack because it helped discover the problem even by accident. Anyhow, that’s enough blabbing for now. Thanks for reading.
I've been suspicious that something was amiss because when the casters are removed from my octagon rotisserie and the car is sitting flat it has a slight rock to it. At first I thought it must be the concrete floor, but it seemed to rock no matter where I moved it in my garage. Then I thought maybe the uprights on my rotisserie aren't equal length, but they are. This car didn't show any major wrinkles in the inner chassis to lead me to believe the car might be twisted. The car has been hit in the passenger nose and a previous owner had half of the nose replaced. Subsequently, I fixed some of the damage to the inner nose, battery box and diagonal brace. I would describe it as basic hammer and dolly repair (No hydraulic pulling or major heat needed.)
So, I started by measuring my garage floor flatness in 6 critical locations; Two front locations under the octagon uprights (sway bar attachments), two locations under the rear torsion bar tubes, and two locations under the rear octagon uprights. Tubular steel with both ends capped off where used to make a custom spirit level. I partially filled the tubes with automatic trans fluid and supported the tubes on machinist parallels at the measurement points of interest. Once the fluid stopped sloshing around, several minutes to be safe, I stuck my precision scale in the fluid and noted the level very carefully. Then I measured the far end. If the two measurements weren't the same then I shimmed it to make it level. Two tubes of custom length were used to get all six points reasonably close. I estimate that all six points are within a 1/16". This is the same method the Egyptians and Romans used to measure inclines or flatness. What does that have to do with 356’s???? I dunno, but I like the simplicity and accuracy. It beats a bubble level for sure. My garage floor needed a maximum of .100" shim. A far cry from the proper Cellete bench, but what is an amateur to do? Press on.... A sharpened stud was threaded into the the left and right torsion cover bosses and tightened with a double nuts. Once the car was supported on the floor and shims, I could measure how far off the suspension attachment points were. I measured just a tick under 3/16" or 5/32" vertical discrepancy.
I also compared the distances from front to rear suspension points using a trusty carpenter's square sliding on a square steel tube. Porsche's workshop manual gives specific measurements and tolerances. Rather than making a pointy plug to fit tightly into the front torsion tube, I just touched the outer portion of the bearing carrier with the square. The factory tolerance is 2 mm or 5/64". My car had a variation of a tick less than 1/8". Not too bad considering my Rube Goldberg methods. The odd thing is that I would expect the passenger side to be shorter from the accident, but it was actually longer than the drivers side. Go figure.
It was fairly easy to twist the car back into shape. I clamped a long wooden beam to the rear octagon and rigged a floor jack to the front octagon. Then I rigged a vertical beam to the garage rafters to prevent the front octagon from rotating. I iteratively raised the jack on the front octagon so the rear beam was about 1" off the ground intitially. Then I stepped on it. Sure enough she groaned, squeeked and got better. Next time more height on the front jack lifted the rear beam 1.5” off and I repeated until all the twist was gone. Then I intentionally upset each front corner and measured the deflection. Once the deflections were equal, then that is as good as it gets. Then I welded the longitudinal on while checking all dimensions periodically. I did rotate the car 45 deg to better access some of the bottom welds. Ron Roland recommends to begin welding at the longitudinal center and then work towards the front and rear closing panels alternating. There, now it’s done and I’m happy again.
I re-checked the front to rear measurements again and lo and behold, now it’s within factory tolerance. Hard to believe twisting would change that. Or maybe the heat induced by welding the longitudinal shrunk it into place. Also hard to believe. It could be my measurement error. The second time around I measured each side three times and kind of averaged my measurements. All were within a pencil width.
Now, lets back up a little a bit and make this long story even longer......I think the chassis may have warped when I welded the passenger side longitudinal several years ago. I did this on jack stands with the car fully loaded, ie engine trans, glass, interior, etc. Its very possible that I stressed the chassis unevenly when trying to access the bottom for welding. So, many thanks to Ron Roland for writing this great book with tons of sound advice. Indeed bad stuff can happen when doing structural metal work. He goes a step further and recommends using the doors to monitor chassis distortion. Good idea in my opinion, but I didn’t follow that advice. Mainly because my front fender edges are trashed and the doors need to be totally refitted anyway. I didn’t notice any difference in the way the doors fit after I did the passenger ‘tude on jack stands.
Also, I’m glad once again that I used the Emory octagon rack because it helped discover the problem even by accident. Anyhow, that’s enough blabbing for now. Thanks for reading.
Tom Perazzo
1964 SC Coupe (under restoration)
www.ZalexIndustries.com
- Vic Skirmants
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
I like home-made inventive solutions that don't require the fancy factory tools and are just as good for all practical purposes. Good job.
- karl schuenemann
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Its not mentioned often enough,the alignment of the chassie while doing fairly extensive repairs,apart from the projects that are done on the cellete type jigs.I used a laser under the car and graduated rods held to that location and the bottoms of the front tube .Your sharpend bolt idea is very good.You can also drop a plumb bob from those four points to the floor and check for square diagonally.I have been using your thread for reference and courage for some time now, thanks for posting your progress.
Karl Schuenemann
1959 A coupe
1959 A coupe
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Really nice detailed work Tom! You could get a job as a welder with any 356 restoration outfit if you wanted one! I'm glad you were able to put your fears to rest concerning chassis distortion. Being a coupe however you really weren't in any danger. That roof triangulates the chassis so well that you would really have to go out of your way to crank on it. Unless of course the car is so badly rotted that the verticle walls of the frame are about gone but your car is not that bad. Anyway keep up the fantastic work! Justin
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Re: My SC coupe project. Made by hand…again.
Caution: Coupes CAN distort. If not supported properly, the roof sags a bit and then you can't close the door because the forward curve of the window frame interferes!