Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

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Justin Rio
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#826 Post by Justin Rio » Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:09 pm

Thanks a lot Kevin, I went and had a look at your project. Its turning out beautifully. You did a very nice job on the headliner installation. Not a wrinkle or sag to be found, right up there with any of the professional jobs I've seen. keep up the great work on her and thank you again.

That's a catch 22 there Martin. While silicone grease might be easier on the seals over the long term what matters most to me here are the rust inhibiting properties of petroleum down in these blind corners and cavities. Especially at the edges of the metal where rust will easily take another foothold if given the chance. The grease may eventually over nourish my seals into goo but a weekend job of replacing them will be a far nicer experience than dealing with paint blisters emanating from underneath where moisture was given another opportunity.

In reality restored 356's are cancer survivors in only partial remission. Original metal that's been scored or "seasoned " from a lifetime of rust, pitting, then onto either chemical or media blast cleaning is extremely susceptible to any moisture that may contact it again not to mention all that rust still lurking in between all the remaining factory lap joints. Fresh sheets of steel with that nice sheen are very resilient to flash rusting. They will eventually of course, but it does take some time and exposure. The older seasoned steel by contrast will re-rust and spread like wildfire if I'm not on it immediately and it doesn't just lightly flash, it advances very quickly into that dark heavy coating. Like those fresh sheets of steel, when our cars were new all of the metal was shiny and in a heavy coat of oily tar. Rust had a very difficult time getting established for the first few years, you could wash it with a hose, drive it the rain with little to worry about. Fast forward 60+ years and that's luxury that no longer exists no matter how much epoxy primer and seam sealer that's been used; water being a force of nature always finds its way eventually. I would never expose this car to the rain again on purpose nor would I ever squirt with a hose; you're just asking for trouble. A localized "sponge bath" with a follow up blast of compressed air down in the crevices is my future detail plan. Like any cancer survivor, exposure to the root cause has to be held to a minimum.
carrera 3187.JPG
A fresh coat of paint is a false sense of security. Old corrosion is down in all those joints just waiting for its chance. That is why for me personally, it all gets packed with grease, silly overkill for some, probably, but I sleep better at night knowing that it's in there. The grease may eventually turn the seals to gum but I see them acting as a "sacrificial anode" that are easily replaced when needed. As you can guess when the windshield goes in for good the frame too will be coated. By your avatar photo I'm sure your car is very nice. Don't let my pics fool you, this car is chalked full of mistakes and short comings but as I've said before it's just at a level that I can live with. For the first couple of years after paint I was constantly looking down my nose at it trying to find something that was going to piss me off enough to do over again but it's well enough to leave alone. Besides I'm to the point where it's just time to get on with it already warts and all. Thanks again for the helpful comments you guys. Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#827 Post by DaveErickson » Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:40 am

Justin, silicone grease lasts longer than petroleum grease. Petroleum greases react with oxygen and water and degrade over time. If you don't want silicones around paint, you also might consider LPS 3. It is sprayable and waxy. It is designed to protect metal from corrosion, and it does not harm paint.

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#828 Post by Justin Rio » Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:42 am

Thanks for the tip Dave. LPS3 sounds like a great rust inhibitor, I watched a couple of videos on it; a good alternative to POR15 it seems. I'll have it a try on the next project before its painted. Yes, I do want to stay away from silicone contamination in case I ever have to do spot repair. Dealing with fisheye can be a very frustrating experience. Thanks again. Justin

Dash wiring Continued:
IMG_8193.JPG
Hooking up the turn signal switch: The color coding on most of the wires on the original blinker switch harness is gone so it was clipped free of the original harness just after the bullet connectors for later reference. "later" became now and life was so much easier figuring out which wire was which with the preserved color coding on the wiring loom side.
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Other peripheral components to install where the back up light, dimmer switches and the horn contacts.
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Minor modifications needed to my only locking collar to properly index my ignition switch into the dash. All these seemingly endless adjustments and changes as it goes.
IMG_8234.JPG
Blinker switch leads tucked in beautifully down into the column brace. A real treat having something fit in so nicely on the first try. I'll take it where I can.
Horn contacts installed with wire leads.
IMG_8231.JPG
Ignition switch installed and index properly into the dash after the locking collar change. Accessory plug completes all the electrical connections on this side of the under dash.
IMG_8230.JPG
All grounds and leads connected. As I said earlier most of these systems probably won't work especially on 12V but the routing and "figuring out" aspect is done. I can now go back address each system individually as needed.
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A long time coming but I finally have all the holes in this dash face filled in.
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The original gauge faces are faded and a bit flakey from all of those decades exposed to the desert heat and UV light but I've decided to leave them unrestored. I figure that any gauge can be restored to 4-cam specs so their current condition preserves more component authenticity.
IMG_8242.JPG
Moving off the dash down into the foot well to mount and connect the cold-start throttle cable. Twin original mounting clamps under the tank floor as shown in my workshop manual. The empty clamp would secure the tachometer cable but I'll be running an electric tach with that Polo-engine so it will remain open for the foreseeable.
IMG_8241.JPG
End of the lead secured with all the correct and original hardware; I even managed not to lose that brass limiter collar at the center of the wire. All the little parts you don't care about until its time to put the car back together. I learned that lesson the hard way. More later....

Thanks for looking.
Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#829 Post by Justin Rio » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:46 pm

More footwell mock ups and small hardware details:
IMG_8244.JPG
Had to round up these proper little dome headed spade screws for the reverse light switch mounting. This switch will most likely have to be removed as the plan has been to move a custom 901 compatible shift tower rearward with an adapter baseplate that will allow it to be repositioned without modification to the tunnel. That's an upcoming side project.
IMG_8247.JPG
Dimmer switch harness routed with a little twist toward the end so it would pin itself up high and tight against the clutch pedal limiter plate. Later A's have two loom tabs but this car only came with one so this was my best guess.
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Last little minute detail are the figure 8 type headed bolts found only here. Have to clean the rust of that cap...
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Unique gas pedal base bolts with a spade screw driver slot carved in. Again, only place on the car where these were found. Gone about as far as I can for the moment in here.
Moving onto setting up the harness leads in the trunk.
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Loom secured to the walls and coiling up the optional fog light leads as found originally.
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Ground leads for the headlight and horn mocked up with the correct cheese head screw and large base washer. I kept an original configuration of this set up so I'd have a reference when the day finally came. At this point I was still waiting on my rubber insulator grommets for the horn leads. Hot wire lead for the fuel pumps which will mount to the torsion tube going out through the lower corner of the back wall.
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Figuring out the correct wire configuration out to the horns and blinker lights. This is the supplied ground lead from Y-n-Z for the horn and blinker. It's Siamese at the eyelet that connects to the horn terminal.
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Positive lead out to the horn with eyelet. (Y-n-Z harness)
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My 1956 workshop manual depicts a direct connection without the eyelets. The ground lead also shown with the additional black weather sheathing.

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#830 Post by Justin Rio » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:48 pm

T1 Style horn leads continued:
IMG_8324.JPG
Referred to the original harness out of this car and no eyelet found at the end of the horn lead.
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Going back with an original ground lead and added the weather sheathing as the manual illustration shows.
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Eyelet removed from harness lead for a direct connection as shown in the manual. I was feeling better about this already.
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Signal light lead plumed through the bottom of the headlight bucket. Ground lead with eyelets on both sides will remain but just not Siamesed at the horn terminal as supplied by Y-n-Z. I have an original section configured like that so I can assume the eyelets to the horn were a T2 evolution.
IMG_8353.JPG
One last final adjustment as it went. I'd like to keep the wire leads on the horn side of the fender brace for added protection. (red line) To allow that I'd have to cut this much off (at the green line) for a relaxed connection behind the brace. No big deal of course but this process just highlights that all new parts need to be scrutinized and not just accepted as being correct out of the box.
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Shortened both horn leads about this much. New end resoldered here and ready to go back in for one last time.
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A relaxed route just to the inside of the brace, I'm fine with this.
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Blinker ground lead mounted under the set screw just as if I had left that Siamese ground configuration from Y-n-Z.
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Connections and wiring routes all finished out here. I may run a zip tie around the horn leads to the conduit to secure them further but otherwise....done.
IMG_8370.JPG
Final configuration and presentation to the inside as well. Repeat right side.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

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Martin Benade
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#831 Post by Martin Benade » Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:03 pm

Hi Justin, I just saw your apt response to my suggestion to use silicone grease. Your reasons for using regular grease seem reasonable and your comparison to a cancer patient in remission hit home as that’s me- two years and counting (and hoping).
Discussing rust, I have daydreamed that if all goes well I might have another 25 years left, I could probably drive my cab in Cleveland winters and it would be finished at about the same time as I was.
Keep up the nice work.
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Justin Rio
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#832 Post by Justin Rio » Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:49 pm

Congratulations on your continued clean bill of health Martin. I'm sure both you and your 356 have many more miles of enjoyment still up ahead. Stay well and thanks again, Justin

Finishing up the right side:
IMG_8377.JPG
The horn won't be mounted in its stock configuration if at all to make way for the oil cooler assembly I was recommended to use with Dean's motor; but I do want the wire leads set up and ready if and when the day comes to put it all back to stock /correct.
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Cooler mount assembly quickly unbolts and horn goes right into stock location. Minimal invasiveness which is the way it was all planned.
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Onto cutting and configuring the wires to match the left side.
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All set.
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Horn assembly now ready to come out and will continue mounting and plumbing oil cooler. BTW: the cooler sits directly in the path of the stock blinker light lead exit. The metal drain tube couldn't be installed for clearance issues as well so the drain hole will now become the lead exit for this configuration. The original drain tube is in the same box with all the rest of the stock correct parts for this car that won't be used this time around. Of course the most important thing is to have those parts on hand for the next custodian if they wish to bring it back 100% stock correct.

Final cooler and plumbing up next.

Thanks for looking.
Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#833 Post by Justin Rio » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:46 am

Finalizing oil cooler lines:
carrera 821.JPG
Considerable time was not only spent mounting this cooler but also in building the alloy front ducting and rearward shrouds. The final challenge was plumbing hoses back over to the hardlines and around this ducting in such a confined space. The bottom line here was very straight forward.
carrera 819.JPG
But the top line configuration was a sticking point. The easiest path on the line was to loop it over the headlight bucket but I never felt right about that and it would require some sort of anchor point to be added on the bucket.
carrera 834.JPG
I preferred to keep it low and to snake under the bucket but there was a bit of tension on the hose to duck under here so I wasn't sure about that either.
carrera 833.JPG
It also needed and additional 90 degree elbow to make it back to the hardline.
carrera 031A.JPG
This wasn't the only issue, the turn signal light is inside of this duct making access for service or removal a huge PIA as the eventual lines would all have to come out in sequence . I got very resistant to going any further so I left it loose and let it marinate in my mind for the last few years until I had to actually deal with it.
carrera 753A.JPG
Fast forward a few years and I came to the conclusion to abandon both my initial line configuration and the forward duct. The ducting isn't really necessary and installation and any future service would be so much simpler without it in the way.
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I ordered these 90 degree swivel banjo fittings to come off right at the cooler.
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With another 90 elbow to point the hose straight back to the hardlines.
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Soft lines will now pass straight in front of the cooler; Sometimes the best answer is the simplest. I thought about putting some holes in the ducting for the lines to pass through but its just too tight and confined in there.
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Besides it still didn't solve the access issue of the turn signal assembly. BTW: grill and light installed for the final time here. Light lead now passes through the original drain tube hole for cooler clearance. The ground lead that would normally go to the horn looped over to the horn grill stud for this configuration. Cavity in the beehive light base packed with grease as a rust inhibiter.

More on this install later.
Thanks for looking.
Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#834 Post by Justin Rio » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:36 pm

Final soft line configuration and an expensive lesson along the way.
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Finalized the needed length of the bottom/inlet line and fully assembled here.
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Inlet line fitting beautifully so far. No clearance issues with the swivel elbow and the body as there is space enough to get my fingers in between the two. Final length of the hose doesn't jamb the quick release clamshell (in purple) into the battery box wall either. Its all floating nicely so far. Like the swivel elbows these specialty quick disconnect units are allowing this configuration to move forward; absolutely no clear shot to get a spanner wrench in there. Especially at the upper return line.
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The road didn't stay smooth for long. I had initially ended the hardlines to work with my original configuration a few years back. Now that its changed and am running them directly across the front my 90 degree elbow is now running into the cooler. I took some time to explore my options like adding an inch back onto the hardline but that was too impractical. I really only needed to relax the elbow slightly to clear so I went down that road.
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I had my machinist turn two pry-bars to fit in both ends snuggly. On my first attempt I snapped the upper cup almost immediately (pictured directly above) there went 80 bucks. I ordered another and supported the cup this time with a hose clamp. It's alloy and I only needed 3 degrees tops for clearance so I thought I'd be successful this time. The cup survived but the elbow cracked...there went another 80 bucks! I couldn't use heat as there is a rubber seal on the hose side collar and its not designed to come apart. I was now investigating cobbling these two together but again there is an internal seal on the hose side so it couldn't be TIG welded. JB weld may have worked but it was getting dodgy at this point.
IMG_8560.JPG
My only other option was a 60 degree fitting. I thought that it might not be enough turn but it was the only choice short of modifying the hardline. Another 80 bucks later I took delivery of this 60 degree fitting and as you can see it fits beautifully in there. With the ability of the other side to swivel the trajectory of this softer elbow could be adjusted slightly allowing this clean fit. An expensive lesson but problem solved and I avoided disturbing the hardlines.
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During the mock up phase only the return line passes directly in front of the cooler. Just clears the turn signal light so another problem avoided.
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Both lines run without touching the body, chassis or the cooler itself. They float nicely in there and I couldn't be happier.
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I would also find that the swivel ends allow both the removal and reinstallation of this cooler with these soft lines as a unit. I spent a ton of time on that duct but the final trade-off and the ability to put this to bed is well worth any effort that I lost on it.
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Cooler and lines mounted and set for the final time. (hopefully, baring any leaks)
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Wasn't a total loss as I was still able to utilize the protective shrouding at the back. Oil cooling system finally completed. Onto the next deal.
Thanks for stopping by.
Justin

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Gordon White
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#835 Post by Gordon White » Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:01 pm

Awesome looking cooler Great work Justin

Gordon

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Harlan Halsey
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#836 Post by Harlan Halsey » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:42 am

Justin,
The answer may be in the previous posts, but why does your car need front oil coolers? My '59 GT had/has them because it came with a 692/2 plain bearing engine. The roller crank engines which I run in the MHAR never needed anything other than the oil tank. I've only put the lines in recently since I am planning to reinstall the 692. In my car there are 2 coolers one on each side of the car. I believe that Art Watkins? only runs one cooler on his Carrera 2 because he found two are overkill on the street.

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#837 Post by Justin Rio » Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:56 pm

Thanks a lot Gordon, just really happy to be done with it at this point.


Harlan, If I were running its original 547 with a roller then of course there would be no lines or remote oil cooler. This system is for the Polo-Motor that's standing in for its long lost 4-cam motor which by the way even if I possessed would be in storage. I really wanted to avoid this addition all together and I asked Dean if the stock 911 engine mounted cooler would suffice but he wasn't comfortable with just that. He said that he normally runs a remote cooler with his engines and with my build being just under of 3 liters and potentially 200+HP;... "I strongly suggest that you run one".
carrera 900.JPG
So with that I began fabricating my own system based on what would be found originally on your '59 GT but larger to more closely match the 19mm 911 oil systems. I also deviated slightly to be as clean and least invasive as possible just like the cooler mount. The entry point into the engine compartment is one example and as you can see is nothing like how it was done. I watched Bill Sargent open a large slit much higher up for the tubes to pass through as done originally but in keeping with my mission of easy reversibility two simple holes down low will be far easier to weld closed and dress smooth if and when the day comes.
carrera 889.JPG
Same went for this rocker brace. The factory attached it straight across for the lines to pass over but I made sure not to disturb it. The lines were curved to snake around its position and I had this compound clamp machined which only requires a single small bolt hole to secure it all to the brace. So in the end there are a total of 5 simple holes to refill and five line brackets to grind off; Then, its as if it never was.

Twin coolers were never in the plan. More work, more mods and not needed as new cooler tech is far more efficient than the old stuff. In hindsight the cooler is overkill at this point as Dean didn't realize I was going to build a complete hardline system for it. He normally runs hose to the cooler but with the amount of heat that will be dissipated through the alloy tubing runs a simple 911 style trombone loop at the end would have been sufficient but I had already mounted it by that conversation. If I hadn't got soft line issue corrected, I was toying with the idea just to move on.

carrera 2006.JPG
In the first shot the tunnel bulkhead is missing and was cut out in the 60's by the previous owners for a Corvair motor attempt but is still not re-installed this time around to make way for the eventual 901 swing axle going in. A 741 would not stand up to this motor for long so that is another work in progress. Most importantly though I have the part on hand to make it complete again so into the box it goes.

Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#838 Post by Justin Rio » Fri May 06, 2022 4:24 pm

Dual circuit master cylinder:
IMG_8582.JPG
Making the additional upgrade and safety of a twin circuit master cylinder. I didn't buy the conversion kit but opted for this new 19mm VW bus unit by itself for 25 bucks. I'll fabricate my own hardlines as it goes. I pulled it apart and seasoned the outer surface with oil and heat to keep any flash rusting at bay. Same treatment I give all of the original bolts elsewhere that aren't zinc plated. Reassembled and mounted on a 356 pedal cluster. The mount flange comes threaded for a bus application but quick ream with a drill makes it ready to accept the studs on a 356 unit.
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Mocked up in the car for the first time. A little longer than the original unit but no foreseeable clearance issues. It requires a remote reservoir will be much more convenient later on.
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Ashley Page was kind enough to send me this really nice remote tank and elbow fitting some time back. It went back into the box for a while as let my mind work on a mount that would not require any modifications to the original GT tank access cover.
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Ashley also said that the original plunger shaft would be a little short for this application so he also included this custom made plunger when he sent me the tank. Looks to almost identical to an original but I'll know for sure as this conversion goes. Thanks again for everything Ashley!
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The initial parameters of this new mount was to have it up and out of the way as far as possible while still leaving me access to the steering box adjustment and fill cap; and again with no modifications to this access cover/gas tank mount.
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Decided on a small gauge wire frame that would work off of the existing access cover holes. Base plates from a couple of large washer cut to initial shape here.
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Begin wrapping the wire base around the contoured shoulders. The final mount frame will have the same foot print of the original cover.
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The basic frame completed with an additional tie in at the forward tank strap bolt for a third attachment point.
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The tank will sit back and over as far as the fitting elbow will allow. Next step was making the cup holder frame.
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Settled on a twin ring version for added rigidity and support. Next was adding on some legs to both locate and attach it to the base frame. More on this later.

Thanks for looking.
Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#839 Post by Justin Rio » Fri May 13, 2022 5:48 pm

remote reservoir mount and access cover complete.
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It took some adjustment and fine filing but a firm friction fit for the cup was achieved. It takes a good bit of twisting and pulling to get it out of there so its very secure.
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One leg tacked in and now dialing in level for the next leg to lock this angle in.
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That position now set with a second leg with one more to add to finish this mount.
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Mount now completed with a reservoir mock up.
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One more confirmation to ensure level was maintained. All set, now onto the final access cover plate.
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Final cover would be an aluminum insert. This developed as it went along as there is very limited access to the screw under the tank. I want to be able to remove this cover without disturbing it right off the bat so the plan was to make it in two pieces with the leading edge of the smaller section pinning the removable side.
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Mounting frame and alloy cover complete.
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Rounded up a hex head screw to loosen or tighten with the tank installed. Stepped leading edge secures the "removable" portion under here.
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Back and over as far as I could mount it without modification to the car or an original part.
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Remote mount and access cover complete. Onto the next deal...

Thanks for looking.

Justin

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Martin Benade
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#840 Post by Martin Benade » Fri May 13, 2022 10:31 pm

That opening in the cover plate is an original Carrera feature? What for? And is that a fuel tank strap behind it? You are doing a beautiful job on all those details. You have time to eat and sleep too?
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