Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

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Justin Rio
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#796 Post by Justin Rio » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:33 pm

Ran into another little snag while running loom around the back of the engine compartment.
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The wire lead for the reverse light, the hard plastic tube on top in this photo should have exited a few inches back.
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It should have forked back where the plastic sheathing begins down in cloth sheathing to make it into that hole. I investigated all my possible options and if I doubled it back to the hole the lead itself was then too short to reach the reverse light.
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I really hated to do it but my only option was to cut the cloth sheathing back and free the lead back where the hole is.
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Sheathing re-taped and lead now exits into its hole as it should have. As nice as these Y-n-Z's harnesses are they are still reproductions that need correcting so they'll fit correctly. I was so disappointed that I had to cut into that cloth sheathing but I care less and less as time goes on. A lot more fish to fry....

Oil Tank installation:
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No reason at this point why it cannot go in for good, so in its going. Coated the exposed side in undercoat for a more durable surface.
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Before the tank can go in I had to adjust and set the rear bumper and its irons to their final adjusted position.
The reason is that the final bolt on the frame side sits behind the tank and there is no getting to it without disturbing it. The bumpers needs to come off again but this bracket will remain in its adjusted position.
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At long last the tank is mounted for the foreseeable.
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Screen received the same coating then mounted.
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Always assumed it was mounted with bolts after seeing some vintage photos it was clear that its mounted originally with cheese head screws.
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Filler neck and vent hose installed. Another one of those very fun and rewarding instant gratification sessions.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#797 Post by Justin Rio » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:46 am

Detail sand and polish:
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Needed to get the finish sanding on the original lid and opening out of the way so it could be safely stored away while I fit my new GT lid.
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As for color sanding on this car I'm going a step further than just removing orange peel and trash. I want to level out any "modeling" features such as hangers, lips or any other accumulation shapes in the clear that will distort the reflection. A super hard sanding block is the only way to get at them thoroughly so I bounce between this repurposed fulcrum plate and small paint stick section. Its a bit risky though, constant care has to be taken that everything remains clean as it goes. That hard face is very unforgiving if any small bit of grit should find its way in between it and the paint surface; Could even require a spot repair if you don't catch it quick enough.
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Here is a beaded lip of clear that had accumulated right along the edge which is typical. Stubborn feature to level out completely and took several cycles. As prolonged leveling goes a Spector of fear soon creeps in and concern grows of sanding through the surface just behind it. :shock:
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Fortunately my buddy Rick laid in on heavy enough so I've avoided that so far. This small section all finished out. Edges are clean, level and the reflection remains consistent across the gaps. Had to take this in small bites to avoid mistakes and impatience.
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Eventually finished out the lid and the leading edge so it can go into storage.
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Still have to finish out the rest of the body but the lid is done.
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I can finally install the grill in for good. Some small detail stuff with that next...
Thanks for looking.

Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#798 Post by Justin Rio » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:15 am

Grill reinstallation with an authenticity detail.

The following detail was shared with me by the late Craig Stevenson many years ago. For those who may not be familiar with him he was a staple in the California Porsche community and had the rare privilege of dismantling many original 356's through the 70's and 80's . Along the way he made note of his findings. He told me even Harry Pellow would pull him aside at events to confer engine detail changes through the years as he was writing his books. In short Craig was a wealth of knowledge and I regret not making more of an effort to record this info before his passing. The following is one detail I did make note of and in his honor I recreated it for my car. I can't confirm this detail to be correct for all 356 but he shared this tip with me specifically for this build.
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He told me that the standard deck lid seal extrusion offering was too large. What he originally found was a much smaller and thinner profile. According to Craig the correct size is the extrusion used for the door top chrome on a B or C car. Photo above highlights the size difference between the two. (door top extrusion with green arrow)
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The last minute detail he shared was that the joint was reinforced with a staple.
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This smaller extrusion doesn't come in a loop for a decklid grill so I had to cut and join the ends together for a tension fit. Another buddy of mine Mark told me how to melt the ends together. You light each end, blow them out and simultaneously stick them together before the tips cool which is almost immediately. A bit of a pressure situation as you want to be accurate as possible when the ends go together. I also had to double check for any twist in the run before I committed.
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The joint of course goes to the bottom as per Craig.
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Grill mounted for the final time with the smaller extrusion. This may not be an option for everyone as the larger offering may fill in gaps or short comings better. This lid and grill was set up for this extrusion during the bodywork phase. Again I cannot personally confirm this detail to be absolutely correct. Just a tip from an old long lost expert.
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I had purchased a package of new grill screws in case I could not come up with a complete set of clean originals. Photo to highlight the subtle differences between new and the originals.
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As the years past I was able to round up a nice set of original screws.
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I felt good about that. Again keeping with Craig's recommendation of rebuilding this car with as many original components and hardware as possible. Luggage rack plugs are original too. I scrounged those off of another lid that ran through my hands. The 4 different layers of paint preserved the plastic for me through all of those decades.
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The grill itself is an original but not to this car. The one that came with it was too badly corroded to save. This one's not perfect but nice enough.
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Lid removed, wrapped in bubble wrap and plastic for short term storage while I move onto fitting that new GT lid.
That next..
Thanks for looking.
Justin

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bil brown
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#799 Post by bil brown » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:08 am

Hey Justin......lookin good!. I knew Craig......stayed at his place a couple nights on a California trip prolly 25 years ago......miss him....he was a good guy and knew his Porsches very well! Keep us posted on this special car......Bill
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#800 Post by Justin Rio » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:58 am

I definitely appreciate that Bill and 100% agree about Ole' Craig.
Thanks again

Begin fitting the new GT lid to this car. (hopefully without screwing up the paint job)
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Completely out of order but this finished lid from Trevor Marshall didn't come in until well after the final paint was applied. As long as I take my time and I don't get lazy I think I might be able to slip this in without damage to the body.
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Have to gap and shape profile this lid to the opening. I can already see I'll have to both add and subtract material along the leading edge but before anything else my baseline had to be established first. I had to get this lid hinged and latched in its best adjusted position to reveal what I had to do next.
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It took some careful set up and a bit of doing but I eventually got this lid hinged and latched for a baseline fit. Of course it was very rough and crude but this was my starting off point. I really wasn't surprised. Had it fit close, well, that would have been the shocker.
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The most obvious misalignment is how the hinges are holding this lid a few MM's too high off of the body up front here.
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Both sides are equally bad.
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Way back when I was fitting a steel lid to this car
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and ran into the same issue though not a severe. A continuing theme fitting other lids to this car.
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The fix that time around was to take the excess height out of the deflector tray. Cut and tacked together here.
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That turned the trick. I ended up selling this lid to a buddy of mine shortly after saw Trevor's all alloy offering.

The correction for this initial fitment issue coming up next.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#801 Post by Joris Koning » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:11 am

Very cool Justin. Good to see you posting. Look forward to seeing how this progresses
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#802 Post by Justin Rio » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:19 pm

Hey Joris, Thank you Sir. Fitting it at this stage keeps me on my toes. I really have to think about each move I make to ensure I don't leave a dent or chip.

Hinge modifications:
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Some experiments like dropping the bottom bolt out revealed what attitude either the hinge or the tray had to be at
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to allow the leading edge of the new lid to come down into closer alignment with the body. A MM or more yet to go but much improved.
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On the steel lid earlier, I made the necessary change to the tray side but I'm not set up to weld Alloy at the moment so I decided to alter the hinges to keep it moving.
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right side hinge was cut just enough to allow the mounting surface that needed angle change with the lid in the closed position.
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The left hinge ended up needing a bit more. The mounting surface had to be both re-angled and lowered a touch overall.
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Series of repeated test fits and fine tweaking to the hinges as it went.
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Before long I had a uniform fit against the body(upper leading edge only, for starters) with the modified hinges clamped tight against the deflector tray.
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Gaps were still very raw down the sides and bottom but the only concern at this stage was getting the upper section of the lid level with the body and the best uniformed gap up there first. Small improvements at a time.
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Original holes in the hinges were soon unusable with the predrilled holes in the tray as the fitting continued.
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They were back filled for re-drilling in the optimum position for the ever evolving adjusted fit of this new lid.

More later...
Thanks for looking!
Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#803 Post by Justin Rio » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:02 pm

Lid fitment continued:
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Holes reopened and slotted with the bolts starting out at the center for any future fine adjustment as it goes.
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front of this lid now sits flush with the body with it fully latched. The upper gap spaced out as uniformly as possible. It contours with the body surprisingly well but may need some edge shaping before its all over.
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Lower gap is huge but will add to it as needed.
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I went to work down the lateral gaps next. The gaps where nearly nonexistent at the centers on both sides. At the same time the corners turned too quick leaving a big reveal. This shot was taken after several rounds of shape filing along the center. Its pretty close but I broke through the skin so the edge will need to be fused back together.
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Paper templates to show me how much material needs to be added for the desired width. The edge of this lid has a lot welding in its future. Whether I'm adding to or repairing where I've filed through its looking like about 80% of the edge will need some welding.
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The next fitment/ contour challenge was to both lower lateral corners. With the lid fully latched the center of the lid's skin aligned nicely with the edge of the body. However as it moved out towards both sides the edge sits too proudly.
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This right corner is a little more pronounced than the left. I played around with rubber snubber thicknesses but it didn't solve the issue. The answer was a long relief cut along the substructure under these high spots. About a cutting wheels thickness was what it needed. The cut was then drawn together sucking down these troubled areas only.

Changing gears for a bit and begin custom fitting a New carpet set:

Fitting the new lid was a bit stressful and involved so to stay fresh and reduce my chances of damaging the paint I began fitting a new carpet set. It all has to be addressed eventually.
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I bought two tan carpet kits, one brand new(still second hand) and the other newish which was perfect for a practice and mock up series. This is my very first carpet install so I'm on the learning curve. My initial interest was marking out the mount holes for the roll-bar but as it went I realized the sides would have to be fully built padded and upholstered to determine the final location of the lower carpet run.
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So I moved onto the tunnel first. When I dismantled this car in '87 it still had all of its original upholstery and carpeting save for the front seats and door panels. They were recovered in the '60's at some point. The only remaining scrap of original interior I managed to hang onto all of these years was the tunnel section above. I could still kick myself square in the ass for not taking care of the rest of it for info and templating purposes but this is what I left myself.
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Fortunately it still gave me a great starting point with just enough info to critique the shape and cuts of these new replacement carpets. All the tedious detail stuff that will ultimately determine how well or how bad the final fit and presentation of the interior is going to be.
Last edited by Justin Rio on Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#804 Post by Justin Rio » Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:51 am

Cutting new carpet sections to desired shape and fitment:

Like the previous alloy decklid fitment and all the other sheet metal installations I've done in the past the one constant is that nothing fits as it should right out of the box and these new carpets sets (from A.I. in this case) are no exception. These are new reproduction vendor interpretations just like the sheet metal offerings and its up to the final installer as to how far they're willing to carry it for a proper fit and look. As with everything else going into this car I'm going as far as necessary until I'm satisfied. I could message fit this set in as provided and most would never notice a difference but I won't be able to leave an off the rack generic look alone for very long. I need a tailored and proper final presentation to this cars' interior fitment when its all over.
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The first and obvious discrepancy is the narrowness and square relief shape for the access cover.
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The factory relief follows much closer the covers width and profile allowing for a proper match up joint.
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Again I could force fit the new section in as delivered but the rear flaps have to sit much higher up the sides of the cover to compensate for the narrower opening. In return I lose some bottom skirt length that needs to lay and secure under the eventual rubber mat; not to mention that awful squared off border profile shape. It just doesn't fit or look right.
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I've got two carpet sets to work with. A mock up test model then a final piece which I will send out for rebinding along its newly established edges. In this shot I have cut my test piece (center) cut to an initial profile that more closely matches my original. Both of these new pieces where profile cut the exact same way so this is not a one-off or a mistake. This is how they all must come.
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Test piece initial mock up with the original profile shape . A bit more fine tuning yet to go but it was at least a much more natural fit in and around the cover and replicates much closer how it was trimmed originally.
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First test piece centered and adjusted in its best position. Moved it a touch rearward to better fit up against the access cover.
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Burned in some pilot holes for the seat rails. The original has large square cutouts for them and I assume it was for adjustment options. Even the factory catalog depicts the holes as oversized and square.
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Kick panel section mocked up and it fits just as poorly. I would be modifying the arch in this piece as well, more on that later.


Thanks for stopping by.

Justin

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Gordon White
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#805 Post by Gordon White » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:53 am

Looking good Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#806 Post by Greg Scallon » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:18 pm

X2. Looking really good. This is such an interesting and entertaining thread. Thanks for taking the time to post to it.

-Greg
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#807 Post by Justin Rio » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:13 pm

Thank you Gordon and Greg, I do appreciate you taking some time out of your day to go through some of this stuff; Thanks again you guys.

Carpet fitment continued:
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Ready to commit. My second and final tunnel cover section with binding removed and ready to cut into final shape. As you can see its also a bit wider than this T1 original. I figure like most new offerings for 356A these sets are patterned and made for a T2 application. The forward pockets along the kick-panel certainly are set up for T2. This additional width is to compensate for the later T2 waffle/spacer plate that is over the seat rail mounts. It adds about another 1/4 inch in height over a T1 tunnel which does not have this plate so not as much width is needed to cover the tunnel down the sides. This structural change along with those lateral pedestal mounts coincided with the phase out of the early Fat-back front seats. I took age and shrinkage into account and cut it out just slightly wider than the old piece.
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My final piece shape cut and narrowed for a T1 application. Centered and mounted here.
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You'll have to imagine these raw edges with new binding but it now lays in and fits against the access cover naturally. I can live with this.
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It still has to relax and conform into the needed shape but its a much improved fit over the way it came out of the box. The edges of the carpet got a little unstable in places after trimming so to ensure it doesn't unravel before I have it rebound I coated and worked in some clear silicone to hold it all together. Turns the trick as it stays flexible adheres perfectly and will be undetectable once its recovered. Another nice feature is once the silicone setup I could go back and trim those little burrs and rough edges off cleanly with a pair of scissors. Onto the next section.

Kick panel fitment:
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Kick panel mock up with my test piece as it fits out of the box. Just as with the tunnel, the opening for the access cover is too small and shallow. I had to double up the tunnel carpet just to get the binding to intersect as it should for this test. The skirt also ends up too short with not enough lead to lie under the eventual rubber mat.
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A mock up to this left side only to establish the final fit I'm after. Plenty of skirt along the edge to lay in there under the mat as it should.
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Arch contour shape at the corner of the tunnel intersects and breaks where it should.
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The tunnel will tuck under the skirt but just highlighting the desired intersectional fitment I'm after.
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A shot with the new section
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To gain that fitment on the left side the right completely goes to hell. Again you could message fit these pieces as offered for maybe an okay presentation but I'm not interested in that.
Cutting this test piece up next.

Thanks for stopping by.

Justin

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Spencer Harris
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#808 Post by Spencer Harris » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:07 pm

Justin Rio wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:33 pm
Ran into another little snag while running loom around the back of the engine compartment.
Justin,

This thread is an incredible inspiration, and as others have already said - thank you for taking the time to share your adventure. Your talents are many and your attention to detail is over the top!

I glanced at your August entry when you posted it, but reread it a couple days ago before I tackled the other end of my YNZ harness in my 58 cab. I found the same thing as you. Exit point for leads to license and backup light were four inches past where they should've exited. It is indeed a heartbreaker to cut into a brand new harness, but I figured if you can stomach cutting a cloth wrapped harness, I'll get over cutting plastic. I managed to accomplish the job, and seal the plastic coated harness back up with heat-shrink tubing.

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Spencer Harris
San Joaquin Valley, CA.

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#809 Post by Justin Rio » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:03 am

Thank you very much Spencer, I appreciate that Sir. Also for the confirmation with the harness issue; I was relieved to know that it wasn't just me or some sort of installation mistake on my part. Your correction repair turned out great.
Justin

Small Authenticity detail issue surrounding this access cover area:
My initial assumption on the kick panel piece is that it lapped over the cover. I wanted to see an original so I asked my friend Roy Mawbey for a shot of his mostly original '59 coupe to see what the factory did.
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Roy's car has the carpet tucked under the cap much to my surprise and according to Roy this is the way it came. Another friend who is very familiar with T2's also confirmed that the cover goes on last and caps this area. My original T1 tunnel mat on the other hand was telling me it was just the opposite for my car.
After a little research here is what I've been finding the well known 356 restorers doing for this area:
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This is obviously a T1 with the access cover capping over both pieces with the lower screws mounted exposed.
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Another T1 with lower mount tabs exposed.
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T2 version capping the area as Roy's car does. The T1 twin screw tabs were replaced with a single slip in hook to secure the bottom for T2 making for a clean outer mounting at the base.
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While mounting the cover on last makes life simpler for both T1 and T2 as pictured in the three previous examples the authenticity issue for me is that my original T1 carpet lapped over and concealed the lower screws. My original section has no holes in it for mounting the cover over top.
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This being the case the vertical carpet section would have to lap over the cover as well. The tunnel section finishes under the vertical wall piece (on all 356A I assume) and if you take a look as to how tight that area is in that Green T2 example I would be locked out if the vertical section was trapped under the cover before I got the lower screws in. BTW they are a PIA to install as they are right up next to the cover and the cover itself has to be squeezed a touch as it goes to ensure they aren't cross threaded. You need a clear shot to install them so slipping a screw driver in between the carpet joint would not be an easy option. So from what I gather so far a T1 cover goes on first with a carpet overlay. T2 by contrast goes on last and caps the carpet. We'll see if this theory holds up. All of this aside, aesthetically, the way I think I'm headed will look better. Throughout the entire car, anywhere there is a joint or break in the carpet there is a bound edge; everywhere but at this access cover by the examples I'm finding. The mock-up photo of my car above just follows how the rest of the carpet set is installed.
So my set up plan is for a mounted cover first and then a frame around it with the banded edges of the carpet section. That's the plan unless I can confirm that the kick panel was tucked under the cover like a T2 originally. Sure wished I would have saved more of the OG carpet to this car.
Thanks for looking.

Justin

DaveErickson
356 Fan
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#810 Post by DaveErickson » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:38 pm

Justin, I just finished reading all 54 pages of this thread. What an odyssey! Odysseus only took 10 years to return to Ithaca after the Trojan War, I think you have him beat! I have a new saying when I am working on my car: is this how Justin would do it? And the answer usually is no, your skill, patience, attention to detail and ingenuity are unsurpassed. How about an update on the status of the engine and transmission, since those are the big items still remaining.

Dave

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