Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

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James Davies
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#811 Post by James Davies » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 pm

Justin, notice that the current carpet is much coarser, i.e. fewer loops per inch than the original stuff. Have you tried washing the original stuff in something like Woolite + OxyClean and rebinding it? Might be worth a try. Just a thought.

FWIW, the pre-A bent-window cars had the same access cover but with binding on the edges. The tabs are exposed and colored to match the carpet, just like the bottom part of the rear seat back hinge. Beige for beige carpet. And lined with sound-deadening foam on the inside. See photos of 2 early 1953 coupes, the 2nd in period photo brand new.

Also, see below for an early 1956 coupe with original carpet/upholstery, never restored. Exposed tabs.

Great work you're doing here.
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Justin Rio
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#812 Post by Justin Rio » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:02 pm

Hi Dave, whoa, thank you for taking a look back through all of this, I appreciate that. Yes, the length of time that this is taking is getting a little embarrassing but time, money and frankly motivation have bogged down my progress at various stages. In my world a bit of time has to pass for the money and motivation reservoir's to replenish themselves to a point where I can take another small step forward. Especially now that I'm well into the drivetrain part of it and definitely, I'll post some entries of what has been going on in that area here shortly. I thank you very much for that kind statement but like everyone else here I am on the learning curve and doing things twice and sometimes a third to get aspects of this car to a level that I'll be able to leave alone. We all help each other; this current carpet configuration issue is a perfect example. I wasn't smart or forward thinking enough when I dismantled this car the first time to save or make note of what was there originally so now I am at a loss. Thanks to the generosity of members like James I am gaining a better understanding of what was there originally and how it may have been installed. Thank you once again Dave.

This is just fantastic James, thank you for sharing these. I was hoping to see some original examples of this area either Pre-a or T1. That '56 must be an early one, those adjustable snubbers and alloy molding rests for the jump seat didn't stay in production for very long; I've never seen that on an A-car. Your examples are painting a picture that there were some slight variances in trim and detail but the remaining constant it seems across the board is that its all tucked under the cover. My original carpet section seems to be an anomaly where it laid over top. I'll have to do some further mock ups but at this point I think I'm going to leave the final cut lengths to where I can keep the option of either an over or under mounted cover. I would love to save and clean up my original section, the old VW gearbox that was in it just puked gear oil and this area was highly saturated. I may but I think there is too many holes and tears in it at this point. Good eye, you are correct the loop count or density of the new stuff is not as numerous or tight as the original. I was going to bring this up later but since you mentioned it now...
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The new German Square weave is nowhere near the quality of what was in it. Original on the left has a heavy cord webbing while the new offering is just a thin polyester backing that the pile is sewn onto not to mention the lighter density that James referred to.
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There is some of that cord hanging out of some of the holes. A structure you won't find in the new stuff. The Tan hue is another short fall. While dye lots can vary the general tone isn't right for this car. The color (in the more protected spots) of this old piece is more of a tan/gold color. The new carpet has a lot of reddish/brown tones which you can make out clearly in the photo above. After conferring with Michael Doyle he said that this reddish variant was introduced in or about the 356B production time.
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Even between my two new repro sets the new/used kit seems to be of a slightly better quality than the other. Density is the same.
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I purchased this vintage remnant roll of tan carpet off of ebay many years ago. The backing still doesn't have the heavy cord but it is of much better quality than what we can get now.
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Even came with its original PB Tweaks receipt from way back in early 1979.
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It is a bit darker than my original but it has less red in it than the new carpet. I wish I could do my whole car with this old stuff but its not quite enough. I'm working with Michael on my entire interior and if we can come up with a closer shade of tan to my OG carpet all of these "final" pieces I'm cutting out now for re-binding will turn into my master patterns for a closer to original end result. We'll see if anything better can be found.
James, thanks again for your help on this.

Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#813 Post by Justin Rio » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:59 pm

Cutting up my test piece:
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This is just my test piece so I cut it down the middle then remounted it with both sides in the sweet spot and this is how much it is too short and or shallow to achieve the fit I need. As you can see the carpet also bunches up as it makes the turn so the arched opening also has to be radiused more.
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If I decide to follow what my original tunnel section is telling me then the bound edges will "frame" the access cover. These two shots give the best representation of what that will look like. I prefer it as it follows what the rest of the joints in the carpet set does but from all that I'm seeing so far the cover was mounted over top but I'm going to keep my options open.
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Started by opening up the circumference closer to the access cover. The arched shape itself is squared off causing that bunching issue as it makes the turn in the previous mock up photo if I decide to run outside.
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Opening it up and taking out strips at a time in stages.
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As the arch profile improved the shortfall in the middle closed up quite a bit.
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Clean transitional lip that hugs the access cover with no bunching .
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The needed opening shape to fit around the cover cleanly and without force. This opening still leaves me enough lead to tucker under the cover if I decide to change my mind.
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Moving onto transferring that info to this final panel. Even if I decided to mount this section as is and all tucked under the cap the opening is still way too small, low and encroaching by the time the skirts on either side are where they need to be. This wasn't going to fly either way.
more on this final section next.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

Justin Rio
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#814 Post by Justin Rio » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:04 pm

Finishing out rear kick panel section:
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Binding removed and dialing in my cut lines into the final piece. I cut it in stages to make sure it was right and that I didn't screw it up by cutting too deep.
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After several rounds fine shape trimming and test fits I had my final cutout shape. Again, the leading edge was siliconed to ensure it doesn't come apart before its rebound. I had it resting up against this spare cover as it cured to help lock in that desired shape.
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First mock after the silicone set up... almost there.
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Tunnel mat will go underneath in the end but this is now my basic final reveal shape around the access cover.
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I left the lip just shy of the top mounting screw.
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Went to the next step and relief cut then folded the top over the rear seat pan.
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Good skirt length with no bunching or wrinkles around the arch.
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An unforced fit that "frames" the cover as best as it can if I decide to keep this configuration. This is where keeping more of the original carpet sure would have been nice. This piece all ready to be sent out for rebinding. Either way I've left myself enough length to change my mind.

Onto the forward kick panels.
Thanks for looking.

Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#815 Post by Justin Rio » Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:27 pm

Forward kick panel and pocket mock ups.

I'll be running the vinyl GT style coverings up front and along the threshold but I'm working with the carpet now as I want whole set done in anticipation of the day when it may go back to stock GS correct.
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Again, since I wasn't forward thinking enough back in the late'80's to preserve the original interior I have to resort to example photos. Fortunately enough Brett Johnsons new Authenticity book provides a couple of key photos of an original T1.
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Both kits that I bought are again set up for a T2 application. The leading edge wrap that replaced the early alloy binding strip. The pocket profile also runs a little straighter in the reference photo. At this point I have removed the vinyl edge wrap and cut the pocket free. (as they come sewn together) I want to both correct its profile and reset it at just the right height specific to my car and utilize the existing mounting screw holes. A piece of carpet with a straight edge placed over the left panel to represent what I'm after.
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This photo highlights that saddle profile shape I want eliminated.
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Begin fitting and trimming back my test panel for the best contoured fit. A lot going on all at once, trying to get the top of the contoured panel placed as high as I could up the wall while following and avoiding all the various shapes up there. Then the Leading edge and top corner had to fit and finish out with the alloy strip and the bottom of the dash. All of this then taking care that the rows in the carpeting run vertical as it went.
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Then onto trimming back along the bottom for the smoothest and uniform transition in anticipation of the pocket overlay. The second goal is keeping it all as thin as possible when its all over. I'm not drilling any additional holes. Strictly using the existing mounting screw holes so it was a bit more effort fishing around for them. Then the re-punch a second or third time as the fitment progressed.
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Pocket work: Test section with a straight bound edge for mock ups. I am setting up the pocket so the mount screw comes out just at the lower edge of the binding as the original example shows. Fishing for the forward mount screw hole here. I think it was a nail up there originally but it will be a screw this time.
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Back panel remounted with pocket and final forward layer section. The leading edge of this outer layer runs right down the vertical stepped relief edge along the closing wall.
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Top edge of this panel mounted as high up the wall as I could get it while still lying flat . Dives down just clearing the trunk floor. Intersects with the forward outer layer with just enough reveal to allow the washer tube to pass through. I was really shooting to maintain this joint.
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The outer forward layer actual fits fine but I don't like the way the binding bunches up in the lower turn. The entire carpet set will have to be rebound to ensure it all matches so I'll go ahead and smooth out that corner. Anyway, I'm happy enough with this preliminary fit and this is before the luxury of glue. The pocket and panel had to be separated; No way could I have achieved the top panel fitment all the while having the pocket end up in just the right spot fresh out of the box. It would have been a series of compromises for an average fit. Now tailored to my liking
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The final panel shape established and now transferring that over to its mate. A good amount removed from the way it came. Transferring these needed new shapes to my GT panels next
Thanks for looking.

Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#816 Post by Justin Rio » Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:33 pm

GT kick panel and pocket work:
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This vinyl kit too is also set up for a T2. Right side is how it comes out of the box with the leading edge wrap and pre-sewn in pocket. Left side panel trimmed to fit my car with saddle shaped pocket profile eliminated.
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I used my newly fitted carpet panels as the template. Same amount of excess as with the carpets removed.
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A very quick mock up to confirm. Within striking distance once I begin installing in earnest.
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Both panels and pockets trimmed and ready to be sent out to Michael Doyle for rebinding. Fortunately for me a roll of edging was included with my kit. I've asked that the pocket remain separate so I'm free to dial in the best adjusted fit for both pieces as they are installed.

Back panel and side upholstery:

Gone about as far as I could with the rear carpeting. To dial in the lower base carpet pieces accurately the sides have to be fully upholstered and built. Switching gears to the rear panels.
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This was the original rear upholstery out of my late '56 coupe. It was covered over in black Naugahyde in probably the early '70's and I was fortunate enough to find it so well preserved for information purposes. This shot was taken just before I sold it all to Road Scholars . I made a paper template of the back panel and kept the driver side panel for future reference.
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OG rear panel was a little curly and cooked but provided good info for a basic template.
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Great info for not only the basic shape but also for pleat width and overlay direction.
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Like a lot of the components this too was numbered to the car.
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My templated taken directly from that OG panel. Its an okay generic fit but its a bit short in places and the contour of the top reveal could be a lot better. Developing this template further for a custom to this car.
That next...

Thanks for looking.
Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#817 Post by Justin Rio » Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:57 pm

Side panel:
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Again the template is only a generic fit. I want the final product to follow the contour of the headliner closer and intersect with the garnish rail shoulder with more consistency. A rough mock up here along with that original side panel I kept for pattern making purposes.
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When it was recovered the upholstery shop cut it well short all the way around then it was sewn in behind the new covering.
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With it so short now I couldn't really tell where exactly the pleats where located in relation to the car.
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This old work photo provided the answer.
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Turns out the pleat orientation relates to the outer strengthen ribs; Straight forward enough.
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Adding about three inches to the new panels all the way around will give me enough material to install.
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This pattern will go off to Michael Doyle to construct a pair of replacement panels in black that will closely replicate this original as close as we can. Had to finish up the rear panel template first.
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Built a new leading edge template in small sections that leaves a consistent reveal from side to side. This piece will be added onto my existing template with the mounting holes for it all lined up.
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new upper profile shape now added onto the template. The sides and the bottom needed some adjustment as well. Almost ready to punch the holes and mount it for a final mock up.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#818 Post by Justin Rio » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:58 pm

Final back panel mock up:
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Panel was centered and adjusted in its best position. The holes where marked through the engine compartment then punched at center. Completely bolted up around the perimeter with the luggage clamps.
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Achieved a very close and consistent (but not perfect) 1/4 inch reveal across the base of the back window. Final panel will be based off of this and once its ultimately cut out and upholstered it may very well change a bit but hopefully it will remain close.
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That reveal runs all the way down and terminates right into the garnish rail.
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Left side runs as equal as I could make it. The headliner encroaches at the center but that is in the steel substructure underneath so this is my best fit without getting invasive; going to have to let this one go. My initial template off of the old original was well short into this upper corner so either way it will be a better fit and finish had I just followed the pattern off of the original blindly.
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I also squared up and added some width to the panel below the garnish rail line. I kept an inch of space with the wall in anticipation of the side wall upholstery thickness.
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The entire bottom run was also trimmed back and squared to the leading edge of the chassis cross-member. Really won't matter once the carpet is put down but it was just to make sure the final panel looks like its sitting squarely in the car. All done with this, it was now ready to be dismounted and packed up with my original side panel template for shipment to Michael Doyle.
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Hardware: I had a few original mounting pins to send along but I was still well short of the pins required. Fortunately Michael makes exact copies for his panels.
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I did however send him this original lower left side threaded anchor for the bungy cord; right after I welded the head back onto that plate.
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Left: T1 Fine grain

Right: T2+ Sierra grain

Small update: I sent my templates off to Michael a while back and he recently contacted me with a choice of material grain to be used.
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He informed me that: "The Fine grain T1 type black was used up to August 1957. The Sierra Grain was used September 1957 and forward to 1965. "

I of course chose the fine grain correct for T1. This is what I like about Michael, he really strives to get the details correct. Really looking forward to seeing and taking delivery of my new panels from him.

Thanks for looking.
Justin

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Nigel Cousins
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#819 Post by Nigel Cousins » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:04 am

Hi Justin,
I just caught up with your thread excellent well done,
A couple of pages back you show your thoughts on mounting the generator for your FauxCam polo engine and I thought it would help if I shared a problem I encountered.
IMG_6061.jpg
FauxCam
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I hit a snag with my FauxCam build, being fuel injected, twin-plugs and ECU ignition a 12Volt generator doesn't kick out enough clean Amps and you can't get a 90mm od alternator, The Powerlite is 100mm mainly due to the smallest commercially available alternator Stator and Rotor is 94mm OD. After many hours on the CAD, I worked out a solution, helped by the fact the inner cone of the Carrera Gen stand creates enough space to get a hybrid alternator in.
The result is shown below, a 90mm input end - 100mm fan end assembly, I opted to use the standard Bosch Generator front bearing housing so that when installed all looks as standard.
IMG_8810.jpg
Generator
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This next image shows the Generator stand, diode plate, on a 90mm mock-up body, to check the inner cooling air holes, mountings. Things are tight, but it works, FYI I had to disassemble 4 different alternators to get the right component match for this build.
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Diodes
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Hope this helps and I wish you Happy Holidays and best wishes from over the pond.
Nigel

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Michael Doyle
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#820 Post by Michael Doyle » Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:39 pm

Nigel Cousins wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:04 am
Hi Justin,
I just caught up with your thread excellent well done,
A couple of pages back you show your thoughts on mounting the generator for your FauxCam polo engine and I thought it would help if I shared a problem I encountered.

IMG_6061.jpg

I hit a snag with my FauxCam build, being fuel injected, twin-plugs and ECU ignition a 12Volt generator doesn't kick out enough clean Amps and you can't get a 90mm od alternator, The Powerlite is 100mm mainly due to the smallest commercially available alternator Stator and Rotor is 94mm OD. After many hours on the CAD, I worked out a solution, helped by the fact the inner cone of the Carrera Gen stand creates enough space to get a hybrid alternator in.
The result is shown below, a 90mm input end - 100mm fan end assembly, I opted to use the standard Bosch Generator front bearing housing so that when installed all looks as standard.

IMG_8810.jpg

This next image shows the Generator stand, diode plate, on a 90mm mock-up body, to check the inner cooling air holes, mountings. Things are tight, but it works, FYI I had to disassemble 4 different alternators to get the right component match for this build.

IMG_8684.jpg

Hope this helps and I wish you Happy Holidays and best wishes from over the pond.
Nigel
Nigel,

Please click on my name and contact me directly about the hybrid alternator you have assembled. Thank you.

Michael Doyle

Justin Rio
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#821 Post by Justin Rio » Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:54 pm

Hey Nigel, Thank you for that information. The plan was to always run an alternator somehow and as my motor will be twin ignition and EFI as well it sounds like the generator I have wasn't going to be up to the job anyway. Again, I was thinking about a "dummy" custom Generator body and shaft to turn the fan with a tandem alternator but thanks to you I see that it is possible to build a real unit. I'll begin planning out a new housing and shaft built to my needed specs but I may pick your brain along the way when the time comes to actually put the guts in it. So a clean 40 amps is enough to run everything?
carrera 2313.JPG
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I still have that really nice V-drive/coil stand I bought from you several years back but I'm leaning toward a coil on plug set up at this point. You know how things change and evolve as it goes. Anyway, like your new alternator, stealth injection bodies and this V-drive decoy the quality and attention to detail is first rate. Thanks again for sharing your latest creation and I certainly appreciate all the effort involved there. It looks fantastic. Justin

Under Dash Wiring:
I've gone as far as I can with the interior for now.; new sections from Michael are now needed to go any further. Switching gears once again and am now moving onto routing the new wiring harness and mocking up any related components under the drivers side of the dash.
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Figuring out the cleanest and best way to route the leads. The main lead had to veer over to clear the hinge mount. I would have liked it to run over the top but its too thick to fit into the space between it and the cowl. Its resting against it so an additional insulation wrap will be needed. I had to refer to my old harness to get a better fix on how the rest of it snaked through. It provided the much needed info that I had long forgotten such as the ignition switch lead lapping over the defroster vent to double back to the switch.
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Then it was onto bringing the leads for the combo gauge and the coil switches into closer position. In the upper right side of this photo you can see that the wiper motor frame (and motor) are mounted but the transmissions are out. This was a little necessity I figured out as it went which I'll share later.
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The leads are positioned about as best they'll lay freely. It was now onto mocking up all the switches and the gauges.
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As I went through my boxes to look for the switches it soon dawned on me that I needed to clean and prep them as well. Picked out my best three original push-pull switches for the coils and fuel pump then dismantled them for inspection and contact cleaning. Packed the cavities full of grease before reassembly.
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Original switches cleaned ,lubed and ready to install. Zinc plated the terminal screws while I was at it. Victor Miles rechrome the bezels for me years ago.

More later...

Thanks for looking.

Justin

Justin Rio
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Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:45 pm
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#822 Post by Justin Rio » Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:01 am

Dash wiring continued:
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By this point I had the harness routed and positioned the best that I could. The metal securing tabs for the harness were now locking in this final position. The branched off lead for the ignition switch and fuel pump was routed over the defroster housing and looped back towards the holes for those switches in the dash. The section resting against the hinge mount was wrapped in some scrap GT vinyl for additional protection against potential chaffing . Wire leads for the headlight switch and coils have been inserted then tweaked into their best position ensuring they don't rub or touch anything. The original flasher unit has also been mocked up by this point as well. This car will be 12V so a lot of what I'm assembling at the moment may or may not work or even usable when its all over but what I'm focused on now is just getting everything fully installed and assembled then I'll go back and correct or chase each individual system as its needed.
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A full test fit of all the switches and dash components also lets me arrange and finalize the harness a little further and more time for all of these parts to settle into their new positions with one another before this car actually runs.
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Every component under the dash is being mocked up so I bounced over to finishing up the wiper assembly. Getting the new rubber base seals mounted correctly with the transmission shafts was a whole session. The ID on the new seals was way too tight and the seals would have split from the pressure before very long. I reamed out all four for a snug but much nicer fit. Seal ID on the left opened up to needed size. The one on the right is where it started.
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The "male" seal goes to the inside and the raised collar seals out and insulates the transmission shaft from the cowl. Female side caps it. Prepping for installation on the car now. Like most everything else I like a good coat of grease to ease installation as well as a residual rust inhibiter for any moisture that may find its way in between these seals.
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Inner base seal installed first and fully seated with sealing collar lining the opening. After a prior unsuccessful installation with the wiper assembly fully built I came to the realization there was no chance of getting this sealing collar in position with the wiper shafts installed. It would have to be assembled in sequence for this to all fit together properly.
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With the seal in position first inserting and mounting the transmission could not have been easier.
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The right side took a bit more work before I could get all to go together. Careful filing and repeated tries before it all fit. This one tried my patience for sure but in the end both shafts are now isolated and sealed away from the cowl.
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Outer base cap all greased and ready for installation.
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Original jamb nut and beauty washer (also restored by Victor Miles several years ago) sinched down into final position. All of this most likely will have to come apart again (for final paint polishing) but it was good practice for me and gives all these components a chance to settle in together.
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Washer squirters were up next. I did my own thing and scrounged around my shop for the needed O-rings and base seals. I had one petrified original donut seal as a pattern then I went hunting for a pair of similar stand ins. I eventually came across a pair of solid door buffers from my past Toyota truck build. They were the right size and thickness so all I had to do was drill a hole. The upper seals just had to fit under the beauty washers and space the edges of them just off the surface of the paint and of course it all had to seal the elements out once assembled. By sessions end I had all the seals I needed to install.
That next...thanks for looking.

Justin

Justin Rio
356 Fan
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:45 pm
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Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#823 Post by Justin Rio » Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:12 pm

Washer jets continued:
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Squirters mounted with original hardware and my new seals. The door buffer donors were the perfect circumference for the backing washers.
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New O-ring seals fit nicely under the beauty washers while spacing them off just enough to keep them from digging into the paint.
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These jets are unrestored and were the best pair I've had run through my hands over the years. I've sent out several pairs in the past for rechroming but the jet tube always came back damaged and/or the unit became plugged beyond clearing successfully. I'm fine with presentable originals that can still shoot water.
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Have the original tube section for a pattern info. Just have to pick up some tubing to complete this installation.

Back to finishing out the under dash wiring mock up.
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Routing and finishing out the gauge wiring. Again, most of this will most likely have to come back apart before its all over but I wanted all of it staged to simplify things when the day comes to make it all work on 12V properly.
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The last bit of wiring concerning the gauges was the string that backlights the faces. I still had the original wire for this string but it was broken and incomplete. I have box of original harness sections and just barely came up with a section that would work. It is very small gauge wire as it has to pass through the eye of each bulb socket. Only a few wires in a 356 harness are this thin. Mocking up this string in the car next to get these bulb sockets positioned and spaced in just the right spot.
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Bulbs plug into their sockets then snaked the wire lead around to ensure ample clearance and a relaxed fit before it plugs into the headlight switch.
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ready to lock in these socket positions along the wire lead.
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Masking tape used to mark that needed spacing while it was removed. Ready to tap into the wire insulation with the terminal set screw. Just about done wiring up the dash.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

Kevin Wills
356 Fan
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:04 am
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#824 Post by Kevin Wills » Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:58 pm

Enjoying your thread and it is nice to see your steady progress. I have found that no matter how long I wait, no job does itself. I am on the same path getting my S90 back together and just finished dash wiring as well, so the fun of that task is still front of mind.

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Martin Benade
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Trying to finish Carrera coupe 58367 before I die!

#825 Post by Martin Benade » Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:56 pm

I’d recommend silicone grease for those rubber washer shaft seals, the regular grease degrades the rubber over time.
Seeing how carefully and beautifully you make every detail makes me feel like a hack, although most would consider my car to be nice.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna

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