Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

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Rex Vandenberg
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Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#1 Post by Rex Vandenberg » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:54 am

Hi All, I am trying to collect bits Locally in Australia and also overseas (or find a complete 528/2 engine which I don't have to sell a Kidney for!)) for my 1955 1500S coupe.
I have been scratching around trying to find information on what parts are specific to the 528/2 engine as compared to a standard Not super engine of the same era, or what might be the same as the earlier 528 2-piece engine
I don't want to buy parts and later find they are wrong for a 528/2.
There doesn't seem to be much info around, unless someone can point me to some info?
The 356 Pre-A and 356A electronic PDF Parts catalogue you can download from Porsche is not much help.
Eg.
1/- It shows a part number for a 528-inlet manifold, but not a 528/2 I thought that the 2 piece case had steel inlet manifolds and the 3 piece 528/2 has Aluminium manifolds (see pics below -can anybody confirm?)
2/-It also shows a 40 PJCB carby part number for the 1500s, but I know the earlier 2 piece had 40PBIC , and the later 3 piece 528/2 had the 40PICB (same as 356A/1600s 616/2)
3/-Only shows one part number for the Oil filler /breather for 528. I thought the 528 and the 528/2 were different.
4/-Fan housing (Air Guide Housing) doesn’t even list one for a 528 or 1500s Are all 356 2 piece and 3-piece engines fan housing the same.
What I know so far (correct me if I am wrong, please);
-Engine Numbers should be between 41049 - 41999 for 1955
-Had roller crank, but I will just use standard.
-3-piece Engine case is easily identified by the engine number and the 528/2 stamping on one case half (provided they are original stampings!)
-Oil Breather is specific, to late type 528/2 ? as listed by this seller = https://porsche356registry.org/classifieds/35144
-Pistons /barrels (higher compression?)
-Heads - Oval inlet ports with fin above inlet valve guide. are they the same as earlier 2 piece 528, or 356A 1600s ?
-Correct carbies are 40 PICB
-I think had Aluminium Manifolds ( can someone confirm if they used Aluminium , or did they use the Steel ones like on 2 piece 528 ?)
-Balance Tube specific to 528/2 ?
-Throttle linkage specific to 528/2 ?
-Tin ware specific to 528/2 ?
-Pulley cast with OT ?
-Correct Distributor is BRS-383 with wire clips and flat top cap (someone please confirm)
Sorry for all the questions , but there doesn’t seem to be any threads related to 528 and 528/2

Thanks in advance
Rex – Melbourne Australia
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356a Manifolds.JPG
356a Manifolds.JPG (36.18 KiB) Viewed 1783 times
Inlet manifold 356.JPG
Inlet manifold 356.JPG (45.91 KiB) Viewed 1783 times

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#2 Post by Vic Skirmants » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:07 am

I'll try to answer some of your questions.
Following is a list of parts NOT interchangeable between 528 and 528/2:
Camshaft, lifters, barrels, heads, rocker arms, crankshaft pulley.
I have probably missed some, but others can add to the list.
Good luck.

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#3 Post by Alan Hall » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:59 am

Rex,
I believe the heads should be same as 356A 1600S, different stud spacing on 528 2-pc case engines.
I also believe throttle linkage is same as 546/2 and early 356A engines, and oil breather is also same as 546/2 and later 356A/B engines.
Tin ware should be same as 546/2 except, perhaps, vertical side tin depending on which intake manifold they used for 528/2. SOME tin same as 2-pc case engines and SOME same as later 3-pc case engines.
I am not sure, but I think pulley would be same as later 356A/B engines.

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James Davies
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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#4 Post by James Davies » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:32 pm

Rex, these are all great questions, and not even the period engine catalog answers them fully. I'll try my best here (I have a 528):

- The intake system (carbs, manifolds, equalization tube, throttle linkage) are the same between 528 and 528/2. So welded steel manifolds, 40 PICB with the choke and autostart, and the same throttle linkage as 528 and 616/1 and 616/2. The 40 PBIC carbs were used on the early 528. Late 528 and all 528/2 and 616/2 used 40 PICB.

- All 3-piece cases used the same breather. Same for 528/2 as for 616/1 and 616/2, i.e. the one with the hinged lid. This is not the same 2-piece case Super filler can without the hinged lid.

- Fan housing is the same for all Porsche engines from early 1954 to end of 1500 and 1500S production. The only difference on the Super is the little angle lever on the front throttle linkage (369.08.107). The 546/2 uses 527.08.101. Both are pictured in the 1955 parts book.

- As already mentioned, 2-piece case and 3-piece case heads are not interchangeable. But you should be able to use 1600 heads without issue. Just make sure they are early 1600. The 1956 616/2 heads were cut in half through the fins (a 1-year experiment which Porsche abandoned). I have some 528/2 heads if you need some.

- Balance tube is the same as 528 as it uses the same steel manifolds. Few curves and different from those on the 546 and 546/2 engines. It is pictured in the 1955 parts book.

- Throttle linkage is the same for 528, 528/2, 616/1 and 616/2 which all had Solex carbs sitting on high manifolds. 528.08.011

- 528 and 528/2 spark plug tin is unique, as it has shallow cutouts for the welded steel manifolds. Front breast plate is unique to the 3-piece-case 1955 engines, as it has no holes for carb pre-heat funnels. Everything else will fit and is interchangeable with early 356 items.

- Pulley is the same on all 3-piece case engines. OT, 4 holes and smaller diameter than the one used on 2-piece case 1500 engines.

- And yes, 383 distributor.

Sorry to repeat a bit what Alan and Vic already stated. Just confirming. If you need extra info or photos, just ask. I have a pattern for the 528 528/2 spark plug tin if you need it. And I also have some 528/2 heads sitting around somewhere.

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#5 Post by Spencer Harris » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:22 pm

James Davies wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:32 pm
- Fan housing is the same for all Porsche engines from early 1954 to end of 1500 and 1500S production. The only difference on the Super is the little angle lever on the front throttle linkage (369.08.107). The 546/2 uses 527.08.101. Both are pictured in the 1955 parts book.
Very nice summary James! It's worth noting that the angle levers mount differently on the bearing bracket p/n 369.08.105. On the right position for 32 mm carbs and on the left for 40 mm carbs. I don't remember who just now, but someone was all in a dither over their linkage not fitting a couple years ago...
Bearing Brackets.JPG
Bearing Brackets.JPG (184.94 KiB) Viewed 1658 times
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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#6 Post by Donald Zingg » Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:50 pm

The lower air channels (flapper boxes) for the 546/2 and 528/2 are unique to those engines - - one year only. Here are some photos for reference.
Also, comparison photos of the Normal and Super vertical tin showing the two different cutout patterns around the intake manifolds - - -
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heater box - 3pc.    engine case1.JPG
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heater box - 3pc.    engine case2.JPG
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heater box - 3pc.    engine case3.JPG
heater box - 3pc. engine case3.JPG (536.32 KiB) Viewed 1635 times
heater box - 3pc.    engine case4.JPG
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heater box - 3pc.    engine case5.jpg
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cyl_head cover2b.jpg
cyl_head cover2b.jpg (148.11 KiB) Viewed 1635 times
cyl_head cover2a.jpg
cyl_head cover2a.jpg (145.61 KiB) Viewed 1635 times

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#7 Post by Rex Vandenberg » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:46 am

Thank you very much every one for some very helpful info.
It has been very confusing looking at different photos , and not always knowing if the engines in the pictures were original.
So after looking at many photos ,
1/-I have seen some 528/2 with Aluminium manifolds , would this be incorrect ?
James you mentioned above that 528 and 528/2 used the welded steel manifolds , when did they change to Aluminium Manifolds with 40 PICBs ?
(see this link and scroll down, shows aluminium Manifolds ; https://www.ghiacoachworks.com/share/en ... 4138x.html
But this picture / link shows Steel manifolds: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=639257

2/-James you mention "Balance tube is the same as 528 as it uses the same steel manifolds -Few curves"
However I have seen some 528/2 with an arch shaped balance tube following the top of the engine fan (like in first link above) when were these used ?

3/-Donald you said , "lower air channels (flapper boxes) are unique - I havent got any in front of me , but what is the main difference to look for ?

Thanks again all for your help

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#8 Post by Alan Hall » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:18 am

Don,
Do you know what the cable clamp at the exit of the lower air channel in your photo is used for? I have seen a number of these and am thinking perhaps the early 3-pc case air channel was used on some industrial engines also and maybe that cable clamp related to the industrial engine use.

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#9 Post by Donald Zingg » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:44 pm

Rex

Cast aluminum intake manifolds on Super engines and the arched balance tube are features of 356A engines (after 528/2 production ended).
For 356A engines, Porsche added a duct on the side of the lower air channels to direct warm air into the engine compartment.
1500 Normal and Super engines did not have that feature on the side of the flapper boxes - - - -

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#10 Post by Donald Zingg » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:50 pm

Alan Hall wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:18 am
Don,
Do you know what the cable clamp at the exit of the lower air channel in your photo is used for?
Sorry, Alan, I have no idea if that's an factory-original part or a homebrewed addition - - -

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#11 Post by Donald Zingg » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:59 pm

Rex
I noticed the crank pulley is on your list of questions. Here's a photo of an original pulley from a '55 engine.
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pulley 3pc1.jpg
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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#12 Post by Rex Vandenberg » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:37 pm

Thanks again Donald and everyone,
and I hope every one doesn't mind ... some more detail questions for a 1955 528/2 engine (again I have seen photos , but not always sure if correct)

1/-Should Fuel pump have the drain plug at bottom (see pic Below) Or did they change to no drain plug in 1955 or was this 56 ?
2/-Should Oil Filter canister have the drain plug at bottom
3/-Should oil canister be orange with black lid (I have also seen green ?)
4/-Should Oil canister bracket have the dip stick holder ? when did they stop having a dip stick holder / temp sensor in dip stick hole ? Brett Johnsons book first says says " Nov 54 , the temp sensor was screwed in at flywheel end , and then later it says," It was possible that a dip stick sender could be used in a three piece case" . The 3 piece engine picture below , seems to show a dip stick holder
5/-Does coil mounting bracket have the small oval hole

6/- Do the earlier 40 PBIC look and operate the same as the later 40 PICB. I can get a pair of 40 PBICs at a reasonable price, and maybe can swap out later when I find some correct 40 PICBs, but think it would be unproductive to set up and tune earlier ones , only to remove and do it again on the 40 later 40 PICB !
or Does anyone have a set of 40 PICB , steel manifolds (thanks for the confirmation on that ) and air filters for sale ?

Hope I dont have to many more questions !

Thanks again
Rex
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fuel pump with Drain.JPG
fuel pump with Drain.JPG (19.94 KiB) Viewed 1568 times
Oil canister 1955.JPG
Oil canister 1955.JPG (30.52 KiB) Viewed 1568 times

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#13 Post by James Davies » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:25 pm

1. All the fuel pumps used by Porsche at least from early 1953 through 1955 had the little screw drain. Recall these were 1952 VW designs that VW abandoned when they moved to 6mm fuel lines (from 8mm). Porsche stuck with the 1952 VW design and with the 8mm fuel lines. Nothing really changed. There's a lot of 1952 VW parts on all bent-window Porsches.

2. The most common canister in 1954-55 was the Fram made by Merz Werk. It had a convoluted lid, no drain. Pretty much all period photos from 1955 show this canister mounted on Porsche engines.

3. All Fram canisters from this period were orange with black lids.

4. All cars in 1955 had the dip stick holder in the canister bracket.

5. Yes, small oval hole in coil bracket.

6. The 40 PICB has an autostart feature (small triangular thingy on same side as choke). That's the only difference to the 40 PBIC. If you have 40 PBIC, I know someone with 40 PICB that would love to trade. =)

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#14 Post by Rex Vandenberg » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:57 am

Thanks James for this and the earlier info, (and everyone else)
I think I can start collecting parts with a bit more confidence.
If I cannot get 40 PICB carbs at a reasonable cost , then I might take on your offer and Purchase the 40 PBIC and do a swap with you for the 40 PICBs.
But I might still have to find Steel Intake Manifolds.

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Re: Lots of 528/2 1500s 3 piece engine questions

#15 Post by Rex Vandenberg » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:36 am

Still collecting bits for making up a 528/2 3 piece 1500 super motor and have a few more questions. Again parts manual not much help.
1/-Which would be correct cylinder engine tin , with dimples/ribs , or without - I have a set of both (see photo)
2/-Which Would be the correct tray that sits under fuel pump, I have 3 different shapes (see photo)
3/-What if anything is differant about the super push rods ? (see photo)
4/-Which would be the correct Generator Clamp (see photo)

Thanks Again every one for your help
Attachments
Super push rods.JPG
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Geny clamp.JPG
Geny clamp.JPG (52.35 KiB) Viewed 1431 times
Under fuel pump tray.JPG
Under fuel pump tray.JPG (53.25 KiB) Viewed 1431 times
Cylinder tin.JPG
Cylinder tin.JPG (84.43 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

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