Hoffman Sales Data
- Andrew James Palmer
- 356 Fan
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Hoffman Sales Data
Hi
Is it possible to obtain sales information (Name, delivery dates, invoice details etc) from the 356/ that were delivered via Hoffman in the 1950s.
I have a pre A speedster and was wondering if anybody in the register has access or info.
Thanks in advance
Andy
Is it possible to obtain sales information (Name, delivery dates, invoice details etc) from the 356/ that were delivered via Hoffman in the 1950s.
I have a pre A speedster and was wondering if anybody in the register has access or info.
Thanks in advance
Andy
1955 Porsche Speedster #80279
914 Porsche 2.0litre 1972
914 Porsche 2.0litre 1973
914/6 SCCA winning car 1970 ex Grady Clay
Vin 003 McLaren 570S
912 Porsche 1965
911 1982 SC Targa
1958 Porsche Diesel - Standard (being looked after!!!)
914 Porsche 2.0litre 1972
914 Porsche 2.0litre 1973
914/6 SCCA winning car 1970 ex Grady Clay
Vin 003 McLaren 570S
912 Porsche 1965
911 1982 SC Targa
1958 Porsche Diesel - Standard (being looked after!!!)
- Donald Zingg
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
What is the chassis number of your pre-A Speedster?
Unfortunately, sales records from Hoffman's 1950s operation are now dust in the wind.
If you are lucky, there might be an original buyer's name, or notations of warranty repairs written on the factory Kardex.
Unfortunately, sales records from Hoffman's 1950s operation are now dust in the wind.
If you are lucky, there might be an original buyer's name, or notations of warranty repairs written on the factory Kardex.
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Hi Donald, I think I am in the same position as Andrew. Trying to sort the history of my car from 1953-1961(1953 Coupe). I know the name of the person who sold the car in 1961, but I'm pretty sure he is not the first owner(he passed away ten years ago). I have a copy of the Kardex from when it left the factory which states it was sent to Hoffman, but are you saying that the US dealership sometimes added the buyers name or notations of warranty to the factory Kardex when the car was sold in the US? If so, would you happened to know if this is something that may still exist in some archive?Donald Zingg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:52 pm What is the chassis number of your pre-A Speedster?
Unfortunately, sales records from Hoffman's 1950s operation are now dust in the wind.
If you are lucky, there might be an original buyer's name, or notations of warranty repairs written on the factory Kardex.
Thanks in advance
- Vic Skirmants
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
There is no reason for the US selling dealer to add the first buyer's name to the Porsche factory kardex. The kardex was a Porsche warranty card basically, and anything happening after export would not be added.
- Jules Dielen
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
From what little research some of us did, it looks like Hoffman ordered batches of 10-20 cars at once, to distribute to US dealers upon arrival. Many of those (at least the ones I have seen with Hoffman as the importer) show no owner information. Other importers like Competition or the Southwest Distributor in San Antonio, TX were much better at recording owners on the factory records or they were ordered for a specific customer so it was recorded at time of ordering. Not sure of the sequence there.
Jules
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Where these cars distributed to other Hoffman dealerships throughout the country, or was Hoffman just an importer that distributed the cars to any US dealer?
- James Davies
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
All new cars distributed for sale in the US in 1953 went through Hoffman. And not a single Kardex I've seen shows any owner data. I also have a 1953 Hoffman car, and those are some of the most sparse Kardex documents I've ever seen. Some Hoffman cars starting in 1955 start to see some owner data.
But yeah, in 1953, you get "USA Standard" or "USA de Luxe" on your Kardex, and you're lucky to get much else.
Hoffman was the importer and a dealer - he provided all dealerships as the importer, but also had his own dealerships in NYC and Chicago. He was also the source for spare parts for all the dealerships. Basically all dealerships went through him to get anything from Porsche.
But yeah, in 1953, you get "USA Standard" or "USA de Luxe" on your Kardex, and you're lucky to get much else.
Hoffman was the importer and a dealer - he provided all dealerships as the importer, but also had his own dealerships in NYC and Chicago. He was also the source for spare parts for all the dealerships. Basically all dealerships went through him to get anything from Porsche.
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Thanks for the info James!
Is there some sort of overview of dealerships from that period? I know VW had a road map with all the dealerships marked in the map(at least in some countries). I'm guessing that it wasn't too many dealerships selling Porsche since there wasn't that many cars being made at the time, but I may be wrong. My car was located in Wisconsin so there is a good chance it went through a dealership in that area.
Is there some sort of overview of dealerships from that period? I know VW had a road map with all the dealerships marked in the map(at least in some countries). I'm guessing that it wasn't too many dealerships selling Porsche since there wasn't that many cars being made at the time, but I may be wrong. My car was located in Wisconsin so there is a good chance it went through a dealership in that area.
- James Davies
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Folke, my '53 coupe (50960) is from Wisconsin as well. Some of these came through Hoffman in Chicago, but others went through Wisconsin dealerships.
And no, there's no good dealer map circa 1953 that I know of. Would be a valuable resources for sure!
I'm in the same boat. No info about the dealer, buyer or the car's life until about 1972. Tell us more about your car! If it was a Super like mine, it was probably raced and there may be period photos of it racing in 1953-54.
And no, there's no good dealer map circa 1953 that I know of. Would be a valuable resources for sure!
I'm in the same boat. No info about the dealer, buyer or the car's life until about 1972. Tell us more about your car! If it was a Super like mine, it was probably raced and there may be period photos of it racing in 1953-54.
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Is there any data about how many cars Hoffman imported into the US each year? I have seen the production numbers from Porsche and people's guesses on the percent that came to the US but I was wondering if anyone has actual numbers?
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Maybe a little, plus some search ideas:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/vi ... =6&t=38216
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/vi ... =6&t=38216
Bob Watts
- James Davies
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Yes, a table of just such export figures are in the back of Brett Johnson's latest "Authenticity IV" book, pp 234-235. It excludes granular data from 1950-51 but is complete after that. It was compiled by Marco Marinello.
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
I have that book, not sure how I missed that, thanks!
My car #12010 has a 12/10/1952 date on the Kardex and is a 1953 model. Does that put it in production numbers for 1952 or 1953?
My car #12010 has a 12/10/1952 date on the Kardex and is a 1953 model. Does that put it in production numbers for 1952 or 1953?
- James Davies
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
The numbers in that table are based on Kardex completion date I believe, so that's calendar year, not model year. Since yours is a '53 model year built in the 1952 calendar year, it would go with 1952 numbers.
Porsche advertised their 1952 sales figures at the 1953 Frankfurt Motor Show. See photo below.
You'll probably also note that the date on the Porsche KG chassis plate on passenger side next to the fuel tank on your car has 1952 on it. I assume the type is 356/4 on that as well?
Porsche advertised their 1952 sales figures at the 1953 Frankfurt Motor Show. See photo below.
You'll probably also note that the date on the Porsche KG chassis plate on passenger side next to the fuel tank on your car has 1952 on it. I assume the type is 356/4 on that as well?
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Re: Hoffman Sales Data
Thanks James, yes you are correct about my Vin plate, it says 1952 and 356/4.James Davies wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:09 pm You'll probably also note that the date on the Porsche KG chassis plate on passenger side next to the fuel tank on your car has 1952 on it. I assume the type is 356/4 on that as well?
Is the date on the Kardex the date that it left the Porsche factory or the date the dealer in the US got it? I would assume it is the date it left the factory and that my car probably was first registered in the US in 1953 and not 1952?