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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:55 pm
by David Jones
Bluegrass region PCA has cancelled all events for the foreseeable future.

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:21 am
by Mike Wilson
As has the Grand Prix Region in So-Cal. I haven't heard yet on the Porsche Parade in Palm Springs. I'm assuming most will be cancelled, postponed, rescheduled due to the restrictions on the size of the groups.

This should be a thread in the Events section.

Mike

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:15 am
by Martin Benade
I just noticed this thread is in vendor announcements although it announces nothing. I guess it doesn’t matter.

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am
by Harlan Halsey
Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
Harlan

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:55 am
by Richard Emerson
Harlan Halsey wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
Harlan
I assume no one has used one yet?

Harlan, I have one bought earlier, but asked with no reply what is the recommended choice for a road trip other than these?

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:15 pm
by Jim Breazeale
Richard Emerson wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm Mine’s in passenger footwell of 356. Barely visible.

I’m not optimistic for Luft being open but fingers crossed.
I'm driving to Luft with the ValkyrieRun.com bunch from the Bay Area. Motels and hotels are already booked. We may do this whether Luft is a go or not. Let's hope it isn't cancelled.

Jim

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:49 pm
by Richard Emerson
Jim Breazeale wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:15 pm
Richard Emerson wrote: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm Mine’s in passenger footwell of 356. Barely visible.

I’m not optimistic for Luft being open but fingers crossed.
I'm driving to Luft with the ValkyrieRun.com bunch from the Bay Area. Motels and hotels are already booked. We may do this whether Luft is a go or not. Let's hope it isn't cancelled.

Jim
I went to the URL to check that group out as never heard of them. Looks fun! I have a 70E I went to bring East so maybe that would be a fun way to do it and not ship it!

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:45 am
by Harlan Halsey
Richard,
Halon has been a standard for decades. The racing organizations approve it. I have them in my cars. I am somewhat disappointed that John Brooks, above, after demonstrating expertise in the fire extinguisher area, did not comment on Halon vs the new stuff or comment on a better alternative. I was about to buy that firecracker, the leno video looked convincing, but his post dissuaded me.
There are cases where nothing but water will do. Old rubber brake lines can become one way valves, an once a rear brake caliper got hot enough to start a fire fed by the rubber fuel line. The Halon extinguisher put the fire out, but the caliper was so hot that the fire kept flashing back. I had to find a garden hose to cool the caliper sufficiently to put the fire permanently out.
I think the more common fire is the engine fire where leaking fuel is ignited by the electrical system. Hence my question to John above. But I'm not sure that Halon would work in that situation either. So for now I'll stick with Halon and keep the rubber lines fresh.

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:53 am
by John Brooks
Harlan

I have worked with these aerosol agents since the mid 90's. I ran a LAB and researched Halon replacements for years. I have done many full scale vehicle fires and system test.

https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standard ... ?code=2010

Halon 1301 is a total flooding agent (Fills the protected space) and Halon 1211 a streaming agent like CO2. These aerosol agents are designed to replace the 1301 flooding system. We have put the aerosols on vehicles as a fixed system. The location of the aerosol generators and discharge volumes are calculated to reach the extinguishing concentrations based on each vehicle. It needs to be designed and fixed to each vehicle to insure the proper distribution of the agent.

A 356 engine compartment would require 300g of aerosol for 15 seconds. I believe this hand held has 30 or 50 grams. It has no rating telling you what size fire it will put out. You need a hand held extinguisher rated for 1A-5BC fires in a 356. I have 356/912/911's and have not installed an aerosol system on any them, even though I make them. I did the math years ago and have aerosol generators that will would work in a 356, but decided against it. . A good UL rated 2-3LB Halon 1211 extinguisher, is the best thing to protect your tub.

http://www.pyrogen.com/Vehicle%20fixed% ... ction.html

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:36 am
by Harlan Halsey
John,
Thank you very much!

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:11 am
by George Walling
Great information and help. I currently use the Halon 1211 in all my vehicles. The plus side is easy cleanup and repair of any damage from a fire. plus great on a magnesium fires. John thanks for the information.

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:11 am
by Richard Emerson
Harlan Halsey wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:36 am John,
Thank you very much!
+1

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:52 pm
by John Brooks
Don't put Halon 1211 on magnesium fires EVER, the decomposition and post combustion by proloducts are highly acidic. The acid developed by the 1211 will corrode everything. And the reaction in the flame front is explosive, a fine mist of water only, BUT NO CFC or HFC agents ever ok metals, maybe a powder, to remove the heat being transferred to other structures like wheel wells or fenders. Water in very fine droplets on magnesium or burry it in sand.

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:59 pm
by Jim Breazeale
Harlan Halsey wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
Harlan
Harlan

Since I appear to be the only Jim that has posted in this thread. I'm unclear as to your question. Please clarify.

Regards

Jim

Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:01 pm
by Richard Emerson
Jim Breazeale wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:59 pm
Harlan Halsey wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
Harlan
Harlan

Since I appear to be the only Jim that has posted in this thread. I'm unclear as to your question. Please clarify.

Regards

Jim
Jim-
I believe Harlan is referring to John Brooks posts about the Element fire extinguisher being insufficient for use on our Porsche fires.