"ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

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David Jones
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#16 Post by David Jones » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:55 pm

Bluegrass region PCA has cancelled all events for the foreseeable future.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
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Mike Wilson
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#17 Post by Mike Wilson » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:21 am

As has the Grand Prix Region in So-Cal. I haven't heard yet on the Porsche Parade in Palm Springs. I'm assuming most will be cancelled, postponed, rescheduled due to the restrictions on the size of the groups.

This should be a thread in the Events section.

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Martin Benade
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#18 Post by Martin Benade » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:15 am

I just noticed this thread is in vendor announcements although it announces nothing. I guess it doesn’t matter.
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Harlan Halsey
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#19 Post by Harlan Halsey » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am

Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#20 Post by Richard Emerson » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:55 am

Harlan Halsey wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am
Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
Harlan
I assume no one has used one yet?

Harlan, I have one bought earlier, but asked with no reply what is the recommended choice for a road trip other than these?

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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#21 Post by Jim Breazeale » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:15 pm

Richard Emerson wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm
Mine’s in passenger footwell of 356. Barely visible.

I’m not optimistic for Luft being open but fingers crossed.
I'm driving to Luft with the ValkyrieRun.com bunch from the Bay Area. Motels and hotels are already booked. We may do this whether Luft is a go or not. Let's hope it isn't cancelled.

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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#22 Post by Richard Emerson » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:49 pm

Jim Breazeale wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:15 pm
Richard Emerson wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm
Mine’s in passenger footwell of 356. Barely visible.

I’m not optimistic for Luft being open but fingers crossed.
I'm driving to Luft with the ValkyrieRun.com bunch from the Bay Area. Motels and hotels are already booked. We may do this whether Luft is a go or not. Let's hope it isn't cancelled.

Jim
I went to the URL to check that group out as never heard of them. Looks fun! I have a 70E I went to bring East so maybe that would be a fun way to do it and not ship it!

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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#23 Post by Harlan Halsey » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:45 am

Richard,
Halon has been a standard for decades. The racing organizations approve it. I have them in my cars. I am somewhat disappointed that John Brooks, above, after demonstrating expertise in the fire extinguisher area, did not comment on Halon vs the new stuff or comment on a better alternative. I was about to buy that firecracker, the leno video looked convincing, but his post dissuaded me.
There are cases where nothing but water will do. Old rubber brake lines can become one way valves, an once a rear brake caliper got hot enough to start a fire fed by the rubber fuel line. The Halon extinguisher put the fire out, but the caliper was so hot that the fire kept flashing back. I had to find a garden hose to cool the caliper sufficiently to put the fire permanently out.
I think the more common fire is the engine fire where leaking fuel is ignited by the electrical system. Hence my question to John above. But I'm not sure that Halon would work in that situation either. So for now I'll stick with Halon and keep the rubber lines fresh.

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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#24 Post by John Brooks » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:53 am

Harlan

I have worked with these aerosol agents since the mid 90's. I ran a LAB and researched Halon replacements for years. I have done many full scale vehicle fires and system test.

https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standard ... ?code=2010

Halon 1301 is a total flooding agent (Fills the protected space) and Halon 1211 a streaming agent like CO2. These aerosol agents are designed to replace the 1301 flooding system. We have put the aerosols on vehicles as a fixed system. The location of the aerosol generators and discharge volumes are calculated to reach the extinguishing concentrations based on each vehicle. It needs to be designed and fixed to each vehicle to insure the proper distribution of the agent.

A 356 engine compartment would require 300g of aerosol for 15 seconds. I believe this hand held has 30 or 50 grams. It has no rating telling you what size fire it will put out. You need a hand held extinguisher rated for 1A-5BC fires in a 356. I have 356/912/911's and have not installed an aerosol system on any them, even though I make them. I did the math years ago and have aerosol generators that will would work in a 356, but decided against it. . A good UL rated 2-3LB Halon 1211 extinguisher, is the best thing to protect your tub.

http://www.pyrogen.com/Vehicle%20fixed% ... ction.html
Last edited by John Brooks on Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#25 Post by Harlan Halsey » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:36 am

John,
Thank you very much!

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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#26 Post by George Walling » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:11 am

Great information and help. I currently use the Halon 1211 in all my vehicles. The plus side is easy cleanup and repair of any damage from a fire. plus great on a magnesium fires. John thanks for the information.
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#27 Post by Richard Emerson » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:11 am

Harlan Halsey wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:36 am
John,
Thank you very much!
+1

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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#28 Post by John Brooks » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:52 pm

Don't put Halon 1211 on magnesium fires EVER, the decomposition and post combustion by proloducts are highly acidic. The acid developed by the 1211 will corrode everything. And the reaction in the flame front is explosive, a fine mist of water only, BUT NO CFC or HFC agents ever ok metals, maybe a powder, to remove the heat being transferred to other structures like wheel wells or fenders. Water in very fine droplets on magnesium or burry it in sand.
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#29 Post by Jim Breazeale » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:59 pm

Harlan Halsey wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am
Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
Harlan
Harlan

Since I appear to be the only Jim that has posted in this thread. I'm unclear as to your question. Please clarify.

Regards

Jim
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#30 Post by Richard Emerson » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:01 pm

Jim Breazeale wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:59 pm
Harlan Halsey wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:51 am
Jim,
What was it about posts 7 and 10 above that wasn't clear? Or are you just whistling past the graveyard?
Harlan
Harlan

Since I appear to be the only Jim that has posted in this thread. I'm unclear as to your question. Please clarify.

Regards

Jim
Jim-
I believe Harlan is referring to John Brooks posts about the Element fire extinguisher being insufficient for use on our Porsche fires.

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