"ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

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SPIKE JONES
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"ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#1 Post by SPIKE JONES » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:40 am

HAs anyone had any experience with or know anything good or bad about these?
Just saw a demo on You-Tube. About the size of a road flare.
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Michael Branning
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#2 Post by Michael Branning » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:59 pm

I have purchased several but have never used one. The build quality seems solid.
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tom collingwood
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#3 Post by tom collingwood » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:56 am

i just bought 12 of the them.

i have that many classic (old) cars that i would be a fool not to have something in each of them.
The size is attractive for tasteful placement and if you do happen to set one off in the car you can wash/restore it. (other extingushers are known to eat your electrical wires etc)

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Ben Wainscott
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#4 Post by Ben Wainscott » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:44 pm

I bought one for my '65 356 and one for my '89 911 about a year ago. Jay Leno has a good video with the Element folks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBjXecsF860

Size is great and appears to be very effective.
Ben Wainscott
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EricMcKinley
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#5 Post by EricMcKinley » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:59 pm

I have had a look on the website, they are pretty impressive.

There are different workable times, going up to 100 seconds.

It would be good to see a few pictures of where they are being mounted in the car.

Has anyone got any pictures showing them mounted.

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Mike Wilson
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#6 Post by Mike Wilson » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:42 pm

I have one. It fits in the glove box. I also have a Halatron extinguisher under the back seat back.

Mike
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'63 B coupe

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John Brooks
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#7 Post by John Brooks » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:51 pm

These devices produce an NFPA 2010 Aerosol agent. I have been on the NFPA technical committee since it was formed. I do not see any listing and they are technically not an approved "fire extinguisher". You will notice the lack of a extinguishing rating like 1-ABC or 5-BC ETC. There are no aerosol agents that are approved as a streaming agent. The aerosol agents are approved as a total flooding agent like HALON 1301, but not this one. The agent is very effective it bonds the radicals of Hydrogen and Oxygen in the flame reaction. But as a hand held dispenser there is no way to insure it will get enough agent onto the fire.

I ran a Fire Research Laboratory for 15 years, I did much of the original research and listing testing on these aerosol class of agents and HALON replacement agents from 1995-2010. We tried these in every form factor imaginable, Grenades, handheld, streamers, thermal activated, every way. This device could reach the extinguishing concentration required, but not 100% of the time. I have discharged thousands of aerosol generators against all types of fires. Testing in both in my Lab and at NIST, NRL,SWRI,CSIRO. I can highly recommend the aerosol agents, but not this one or as a hand held device.

I would go look at a pre-engineered fixed aerosol system like you put on a boat. 30-100g for the engine. This material is a very good agent. It will stop combustion in a diesel engine (I turned off a GE locomotive by accident by placing a 500g generator too close to the turbo intake.)

The agents are pretty good, just not in this device.
John Brooks

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Martin Benade
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#8 Post by Martin Benade » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:11 pm

That’s great to have this kind of inside knowledge here. Thanks for being among us!
Cleveland Ohio
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Harlan Halsey
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#9 Post by Harlan Halsey » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:22 am

John,
To be clear, are you saying that the 50 second device shown on the Leno video will not reach the concentration needed to put out an engine fire in a 356 if sprayed directly into the open engine compartment?

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John Brooks
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#10 Post by John Brooks » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:47 am

Harlan

I am saying it might work, with the lid closed, engine off, but not all the time. The agent is hot and rises, getting it to flood the compartment will be difficult. It does have some velocity at the end of the gas grain but the ability to reach the extinguishing concentration on a class b fire in the engine compartment is marginal at best. Watch how is rises in the video. I don't know the weight of the aerosol forming compound, but it appears to be 50 grams. 50g at this volume would be a 10-15 second discharge time. The long gas grain shape will also be prone to cracking and having uneven burn rates or conflagrations like a Roman candle.
I have tested many vehicle systems and if you are using an aerosol, it needs to be pre-engineered and monitored.
John Brooks

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66 912
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getting pushed around in porsches since 1965

Richard Emerson
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#11 Post by Richard Emerson » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:48 pm

What then is the recommended one for a 356 in the smallest form factor?

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Michael Branning
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#12 Post by Michael Branning » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:53 am

6DBAED34-B85C-45AB-B7F3-CD72763BF37F.jpeg
6DBAED34-B85C-45AB-B7F3-CD72763BF37F.jpeg (127.02 KiB) Viewed 2874 times
This is a Packard that caught on fire at Amelia Island this year. Gasoline leak...took 4 extinguishers to stop.
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Jim Breazeale
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#13 Post by Jim Breazeale » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:06 pm

EricMcKinley wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:59 pm
I have had a look on the website, they are pretty impressive.

There are different workable times, going up to 100 seconds.

It would be good to see a few pictures of where they are being mounted in the car.

Has anyone got any pictures showing them mounted.
Here is mine mounted in my 911. I'm transferring it to my 356C for my cross country trip to Luft I'll be leaving from the SF Bay Area. Here's hoping that we have a handle on Covid-19 by then.
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#14 Post by Richard Emerson » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm

Mine’s in passenger footwell of 356. Barely visible.

I’m not optimistic for Luft being open but fingers crossed.

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Mike Wilson
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Re: "ELEMENT" fire extinguishers

#15 Post by Mike Wilson » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:35 pm

Unfortunately, a lot of our car events and concerts are postponed or cancelled. Luftgekühlt has been pushed to September.

Mike
Last edited by Mike Wilson on Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Wilson
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