Interesting seat detail

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Joris Koning
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Interesting seat detail

#1 Post by Joris Koning »

Over the years looking at original seats a distinct detail has stood out for me. When looking at the backrest of original seats a distinct horizontal line running the complete width of the seat can be seen. It runs about 4-5"from the top of the backrest. As far as I know there is no element in the frame that would push through etc. to form this line. Anybody have any idea what would have cause it?

Another thing I have noticed is that the part of the backrest above the line sometimes is more "bulbulous" when looking at the side profile

Attached some pictures of this detail on unrestored cars
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Jan Kolm
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#2 Post by Jan Kolm »

I have a pair of original T5 seats that only had a headrest installed on the passenger side and can check (not today) whether this line aligns with the headrest mounting holes in the seat frame.
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Rick Woltz
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#3 Post by Rick Woltz »

There is a sock that goes over the seat frame that is open on the back. It is held together with some clips on the ends of rubber straps like bungee cords that make the center part springy. The fasteners start showing after may years

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Alan Hall
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#4 Post by Alan Hall »

I have a pair of original, but totally worn out, seats from a conv. D. I do see some similar lines, but don't know if from storage or were there before storage. I can't feel anything up under the vinyl that would cause a line. Attached some photos. One of interest is the last 3 digits of the chassis number and a "D" in crayon under the boomerang hinge.
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DSCN0205.JPG
DSCN0205.JPG (356.25 KiB) Viewed 1254 times

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Joris Koning
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#5 Post by Joris Koning »

Hi Alan,

Thanks for taking the time to dig out those seats and interesting detail on the vin! Looks like your seats indeed also have the line. I have really been mesmerized by these. As you point out it does not appear that there is a something in the construction of the seat that explains there presence.

ON a related note, a period picture showing the bulbous top of the back rest
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05_Sitzproduktion-ZH-ca-1960_08.jpg
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Martin Benade
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#6 Post by Martin Benade »

I’ve heard that lately everyone over accentuates the cushion pleat. That one in the picture looks very deep and distinct.
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Joris Koning
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#7 Post by Joris Koning »

Jan Kolm wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:58 pm I have a pair of original T5 seats that only had a headrest installed on the passenger side and can check (not today) whether this line aligns with the headrest mounting holes in the seat frame.
Hi Jan,

The lines I have seen are positioned below the headrest mounting holes. Curious about your seat.

Joris
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Joris Koning
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#8 Post by Joris Koning »

I cross posted about this on the early s board and some people jumped in.

https://www.early911sregistry.org/forum ... seat-backs

The "line" is probably the result of the jig? used to tightly hold the vinyl down while the formed and glued it around the coco hair that wraps over the top of the back rest.

James Davies sent me a period picture that very clearly shows the "bulb". Also note all the subtle contours that are pretty much always lost upon re-upholstery
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#9 Post by Rainer Cooney »

Joris, In all the original seats I've had apart there's foam on the top 3-4 inches of the seat back. This probably won't explain the "line' but would contribute to the protruding of the vinyl in this area. By the time I got around to redoing these seats the foam was nothing but dust on most of them.

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Re: Interesting seat detail

#10 Post by Jan Kolm »

'61 seat w/headrest mounts
'61 seat w/headrest mounts
P1010051.JPG (205.19 KiB) Viewed 1062 times
Joris Koning wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:15 pm
Jan Kolm wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:58 pm I have a pair of original T5 seats that only had a headrest installed on the passenger side and can check (not today) whether this line aligns with the headrest mounting holes in the seat frame.
Hi Jan,

The lines I have seen are positioned below the headrest mounting holes. Curious about your seat.

Joris
Here is a photo of my late '61 passenger seatback w/headrest mounts. The line is clearly visible below.
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Joris Koning
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#11 Post by Joris Koning »

Hi Jan,

Thanks for sharing!

I think we can start drawing some conclusions.

As stated earlier all factory seats (aside from early seats, speedster and GT) had the "bulb" at the top part of the headrest. This was likely there as some sort of protection for rear passengers. The "bulb" is formed by the coco hair wrapping around the frame in this area and the factory using foam and/or cotton "watting" etc. to cover the coco hair to prevent witness marks of the coco hair appearing over time (common practice). To ensure a sharp contour the back vinyl was glue to the burlap probably under some sort of pressure to stretch the vinyl. This jig used for this is what pressed the "line" in the backrest.
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James Davies
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#12 Post by James Davies »

Rainer, it's probably similar foam to what Reutter used on pre-As under the carpet on the longitudinals and tunnel and inside the monkey motion quarter-dome cover. And yeah, that stuff turns to dust. Not surprised it turns to dust on the seats and the "bulb" is lost.

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Re: Interesting seat detail

#13 Post by Paul Hatfield »

Martin-
Regarding the pleat-
I think today, most are striving for the pleat shown in the black and white photo. There are other photos of cars taken during the period that seem to show this more loose pleat.
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Joris Koning
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#14 Post by Joris Koning »

I think the sad reality is that pretty much nobody out there does a correct job on the seats. The overstuffed, foam filled arrow straight plead seats championed by most shops for decades have become the norm of what is correct.
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Re: Interesting seat detail

#15 Post by Paul Hatfield »

I had the Fawn interior for my car done a couple of years ago by K&H in Los Angeles. I live in Washington state, so I did not choose them for being close to me, but instead chose them because they seemed to understand what I was talking about when discussing the pleat. They had the best match to the vinyl compared than their competition. I was also told they do lots of work for Willhoit. I am showing the photos below to represent how it came out. I'm not claiming it is perfect or original in appearance, but I am satisfied that the pleat came back looking the way I asked for it. It is more work to construct the seat this way.
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