Super 90 GT engine sound proofing

[Eric Cherneff]

Does anyone know the correct original soundproofing used in a Super 90 GT engine compartment? Same as a regular 356? Nothing? Something else? Thank you!

[Joris Koning]

Eric, just the original stuff also used on the pushrods. Bill P. has the most accurate reproduction. Not cheap but nice

[Jon Bunin]

Does anyone know the correct original soundproofing used in a Super 90 GT engine compartment? Same as a regular 356? Nothing? Something else? Thank you!

Eric, when Road & Track magazine tested a Super 90 GT in 1961, it had "anti-droning omitted" according to factory information supplied with the car.
The magazine noted that weight was saved by, among other things, eliminating the sound insulation. I thought that was standard factory practice for GT cars.

[Dick Roth]

Jon. I think you are generally correct. Certainly my 1959 GT coupe had no sound insulation in the engine compartment. That was the factory's standard practice.

[Joris Koning]

The factory use of the insulation on GT cars is an interesting topic. I have documentation on several GT cars both coupe and speedster which use insulation. My friends unrestored 59 GT coupe has the insulation on the engine firewall. If my memory serves me correct so does the S90 coupe in the Scrogham book. It seems some cars had full or partial insulation and others not. Dick, did your car have the insulation above the trans?

[Eric Cherneff]

I just checked the Scrogham book, and Joris’s memory is correct. The caption is “Note engine insulation installed in a lightweight car!”

The Road & Track reference from 1961 is interesting. It could refer to the other pieces normally installed throughout the car: I wonder if it was specifically the engine bay as well?

Thanks to all for their input!

[Jon Bunin]

I just checked the Scrogham book, and Joris’s memory is correct. The caption is “Note engine insulation installed in a lightweight car!”

Eric, I think that comment and exclamation point implied surprise, and an exception to normal practice.
Four pages earlier, the 356B GTs were described as having undercoating and sound insulation deleted, and the undersides painted black (pages 60-61).

From the Oct 61 Road & Track magazine test... "Driving the GT is not really much different from driving the more domesticated models. There is more engine noise inside the car, of course (the Porsche manual said "anti-droning omitted") but it isn't terribly noticeable until full throttle is used."

[Paul Hatfield]

A little plug here, the Scrogham books are well worth the $$.
-Paul

[Joris Koning]

I think period magazines might have been confusing the body schutz with the tar mats.

I reviewed the files I have of Bob Hartwell's 59 GT speedster now in the Webster collection and the car had the factory tar mats in the engine compartment before Tim restored it. The same goes I believe for Richards P's '58 GT speedster. My friends original unrestored GT coupe also has the mats in the engine compartment. So does the '58 GT coupe in attached well known period factory picture.

My mind is vague on the former Mike Smith GT coupe which I reviewed some time back. Perhaps Mike can chime in when he reads this. Harlan, if you are reading, what does your car have? Same goes for Norm.

[Joris Koning]

Upon further review I have located several other A GT speedster and coupe's, all having the engine insulation

[Jon Bunin]

The factory use of the insulation on GT cars is an interesting topic. I have documentation on several GT cars both coupe and speedster which use insulation.

Joris, I agree it seems to be an area that had exceptions, and one I haven't focused on or explored myself.

It's interesting that in Cole Scrogham's opinion the GT cars had neither undercoating nor sound insulation (pages 17-19, 43, 60-61).
"The interior area of the front compartment, as well as the engine bay, was always painted satin black in GT Carreras, without any undercoating or sound insulation." (page 43).

[Joris Koning]

The factory use of the insulation on GT cars is an interesting topic. I have documentation on several GT cars both coupe and speedster which use insulation.

Joris, I agree it seems to be an area that had exceptions, and one I haven't focused on or explored myself.

It's interesting that in Cole Scrogham's opinion the GT cars had neither undercoating nor sound insulation (pages 17-19, 43, 60-61).
"The interior area of the front compartment, as well as the engine bay, was always painted satin black in GT Carreras, without any undercoating or sound insulation." (page 43).

Jon, indeed. I am not sure how many cars Cole used to base his observations on. If he used the factory documentation he might have been confused by the schutz versus tar mats.

The front compartment I believe indeed never got the tar mats. With regard to the schutz, I do not believe the statement in the book that the cars did not have any undercoating is correct. I know of cars where some parts of the underside did get schutz. My friend Dick Koenig researched this topic when he was working on his GT's. Next time I talk to him I will ask and report back.

[Cole Scrogham]

Hi guys, never say never as I have learned over the years but don't recall undercoating on any GS/GT car that had alloy panels just black-out paint although the seams were pitched over before the black-out. As a matter of fact there are a few in my notes including 84954 that didn't even have the black-out paint and were left body color underneath. Never saw tar mats in the front compartment either, saw a few earlier GS/GT's with mats in the engine bay but in general just painted. Perhaps a distinction between factory raced cars I don't know, not enough sample size to draw conclusions so each car has to tell its own story to some degree. Hope that helps.

[Joris Koning]

Cole, Good to hear from you. I 100% agree with having the car tell its own story.

I was going through the files that Tim Goodrich left to me and found pictures of pushrod GT speedster #84930 and the Seinfeld '59 GT speedster that Vic knows well. Both cars had the tar mats in the engine compartment. Remember seeing #84930 at one of Gary's early camp outs, now kicking myself for not studying the car in more detail. Maybe the factory GT cars did not have the tar mats but the picture I posted earlier of a werks '58 GT coupe shows them installed. Would not be surprised if these got torn out by racers over the years to lighten the cars. All in all fascinating stuff and might warrant a 4-cam forum article in an upcoming registry magazine.

Please tell your dad I say hi.

[Richard Emerson]

Here’s 84930 that Joris mentioned. Unrestored 1959 GT Speedster.

Joris, if you have other early photos I might not have please email them to me.

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