Oil Breather Hose - 356C

[Bruce Baker]

I believe those crankcase atmospheric vent hoses are cheap fragile ribbed paper/foil material, not plastic or rubber and not with a braided sheath. The dipstick-surrounding horizontal plate had a short vertical tube to which the lower end of that vent tube coming from the oil fill outlet.

That can was unique in that the generator stand was still for a 'flip-top' filler and thus the tall oil filler can had a round base like it's predecessor. This was a very interim system for a 'late pre-C.'

It shows the parts book illustration timing to also illustrate the confusion and indecision at the time of what was to be used on various configurations of engine details. The draftsman/illustrator must have been saying the German equivalent of..."What-E-V-E-R!"

That photo has a great perspective on how things were done at the Factory in the 356 days. Note that on the center foreground engine's vent tube, there is a black grommet and none on the other engines? Someone took the time to do that before the tube was installed and the others will require removal and reinstallation to get that grommet in place...very un-Teutonic! That grommet is held by a 'C' shaped bracket on the New Heater 'snout.' These are installed after the engine is in the car.

Those pictured "cold country" (not exactly ROW- 'rest of world' ... as ~half the production was going to North America and not staying in Europe) engines were quite a batch, with another on a stand in the left background being assembled. Soon after that picture was taken, the generator stand and the tall can's base were changed on subsequent engines and the venting was, as well...into the carb. The parts book illustration accommodated both...almost. It leaves out the two subsequent types of tubes used when they went from atmospheric to carburetor ingested venting.

(BTW, here's a question for the engine people...how did a closed system, ingestion of crankcase pressure, qualify as a 'venting' of crankcase pressure?)

[Charlie White]

Well, this picture should settle it.............!!!!!!!!!!

CW

[Ned Hamlin]

My '64 Karmann coupe, 218579, completed on May 22, '64, is unmolested, and, in fact, has never had the engine removed. I'm not one to argue with Jim, but the breather hose is braided and very original. The car was put away in 1979, and untouched until I got a hold of it two years ago. I have spoken to the two previous owners at length, and nothing was ever done to the engine except typical tune up and maintenance.

I'm going to try and post a pic of the engine.

Thanks.

Ned Hamlin
'64 Bali blue coupe

[Jim Breazeale]

Ned

I am not going to deny that braided hoses came on 356Cs. They are not the "norm", though. Most of the braided hoses I have seen are replacements for the rubbed plactic hose. The factory installed braided hoses are made from a much heavier material.
Regards

[Dick Roth]

The observation that was made regarding the factory's propensity to be inconsistent in specifying details on some components is true. Having said that, I can say that when I purchased my first Porsche, a 1964 Irish green cabriolet BRAND NEW from a dealer in NY, the oil breather hose was made of braided german rubber hose. I always thought that the ribbed type was later or aftermarket, but that's speculation.

[Jim Breazeale]

The observation that was made regarding the factory's propensity to be inconsistent in specifying details on some components is true. Having said that, I can say that when I purchased my first Porsche, a 1964 Irish green cabriolet BRAND NEW from a dealer in NY, the oil breather hose was made of braided german rubber hose. I always thought that the ribbed type was later or aftermarket, but that's speculation.

Dick

There are now a bunch of evidence that Porsche delivered many Cs with Braided Rubber hoses. The ribbed plastic hoses were far more prevalent. I believe that the ribbed hoses were never offered as a replacement, either. People just put a piece of 20MM braided rubber hose in place of the ribbed hoses when they became brittle and broke. The repalcement braided hose is a much different material than the original hose, though. It can be assumed that the braided hoses were installed until the ribbed plastic hose became available. There is some pretty strong evidence that a few later cars got the braided hose, though.

Regards

[Dan Schaefer]

As I've stated here before, I'm the original owner of '64 C Coupe #218470. The car has Zeniths and originally had the heavy braided hose to the right carb for the crankcase breather. It has long since been replaced with a similar sized but smooth rubber hose since the braided one finally fell apart after the first engine rebuild at about 125,000 miles.

I'm sure of this since I handled that hose a number of times to R&R it in order to clean out the condensed oil vapors that had the consistancy of mayonaisse.

The interesting differences that seem to show up on the last C's and SC's built in '64 - '65 probably came from the fact that (according to an ex-pat factory mechanic I knew at Vasek's when I lived just a few blocks from his shop in Redondo Beach, CA) during the build of 356's in those years the factory used a lot of stuff in their parts bins in order to clean out the inventory.

For instance, my C has an electric tach. This has always seemed to fluff some mechanics that I've had work on my car - particularly when I assure them that that's the way the car came from the dealer. Another item that I've been told wasn't right for a '64 is the seat recliner knobs - someone once told me that the ones on my car were only used on '65's. Go figure!

Dan Schaefer

[Jim Breazeale]

As I've stated here before, I'm the original owner of '64 C Coupe #218470. The car has Zeniths and originally had the heavy braided hose to the right carb for the crankcase breather. It has long since been replaced with a similar sized but smooth rubber hose since the braided one finally fell apart after the first engine rebuild at about 125,000 miles.

I'm sure of this since I handled that hose a number of times to R&R it in order to clean out the condensed oil vapors that had the consistancy of mayonaisse.

The interesting differences that seem to show up on the last C's and SC's built in '64 - '65 probably came from the fact that (according to an ex-pat factory mechanic I knew at Vasek's when I lived just a few blocks from his shop in Redondo Beach, CA) during the build of 356's in those years the factory used a lot of stuff in their parts bins in order to clean out the inventory.

For instance, my C has an electric tach. This has always seemed to fluff some mechanics that I've had work on my car - particularly when I assure them that that's the way the car came from the dealer. Another item that I've been told wasn't right for a '64 is the seat recliner knobs - someone once told me that the ones on my car were only used on '65's. Go figure!

Dan Schaefer

64 356Cs got electric tachs after engine # 713689. The seat recliner knobs and the whole recliners got switched sometime around the spring of 64. I supplied pictures and info about seat recliners for a tech article about them. Your car may be late enough to have the later seat recliners. You can't put knobs from a "65" seat recliner on a "64" seat recliner. You either have "64" recliners or "65" recliners.

Regards

[Jim Breazeale]

Dan

I just looked in the 356C supplement of the Factory Parts manual. It states that the seat recliners were changed to the "2nd type" in July of 64. I've taken pictures of the "1st type" and the "2nd type". My guess is that you have the "2nd type".

Regards

[Ned Hamlin]

Good on ya, Jim. My car, 218579, completed late May '64, has the "1st type" knob that you show. Dan's coupe, 218470, then should also have the "1st type", since his car was built right before mine. But then again........

This is fascinating stuff.

Ned Hamlin

[Paul Hatfield]

Ok, I'll chime in on this snatching of a thread.

Regards the seat recliner, below are pictures of mine. I believe the blue stamp is a date: August 13, 1964. My car is a 65 C coupe. The second picture is the same hinge flipped over.
My car is number 130730.

[Mike Bertuleit]

Since my 64C is close in number (218644) to Ned and Dan's, I went out and snapped a photo of my braided hose. The car is mostly original, my Dad bought it in '69, but don't know for sure if the hose is. Also the seat recliner is the "2nd type". The car was completed on 6/08/1964 according to the COA.

Mike

[Jim Breazeale]

Mike

Your hose appears to have been replaced with the current braided hose. The original braided hoses were a different material. Your seat hinges are the "1st type". They are the ones that are correct for a 64.

Regards

[Mike Bertuleit]

Jim,

Thanks for your eye and the clarification.

Mike

[tyler carlson]

You can take what Jim says to the bank! Just one problem here is the 'over-examining' of factory literature and manuals and taking it too 'literally'. It is well known that porsche 'air-brushed' many of the pictures to keep things current. This was the early on 'photo-shop' technique. I can remember the plastic 'accordian' hose back in the day and it was thin and brittled out after a few years. (perhaps the material used was not 'perfected'-german plastic is known for not lasting). The 'accordian' hose on my mom's 1965 'sc' dried out and crumbled also after a few years. It was replaced with a braided hose at that time. the braided hose was used by most repair shops because it was cheap -readily available-easier to work with. I remember my mom complaining about a 'piece of common garden hose (cloth covered braided hose) being used on her car'. She ordered a new accordian hose from porsche-i had to put it on. The second point is that both type hoses may be correct-according to type of carb/air cleaner. With the zenith carb/air cleaner the flexible cloth hose seems to be the natural choice-for flexibility. The 'accordian' hose with the solex carb/mesh air cleaner seems to be another natural choice. Changing the carbs/air cleaners and not the hose could lead to some confusion also! The indiscriminate changing of a hose 'back in the day' was hardly noticed in the engine bay nor the small $1.25 charge on your bill. Much was left to the discreation of the mechanic to keep your car running 'perfect'.