Headlight Glass Seal

[Jan Kolm]

I believe this has been discussed previously, but Karmann was known to use old vendor stock from time to time when assembling 356 bodies. This suggests they were not very good at rotating stock in the warehouse and took a "last in-first out" approach; so if a vendor was delayed in making a parts delivery to Karmann, the older stock at the back of the shelves would eventually be pulled for use on the assembly line.

[Jim Breazeale]

I believe this has been discussed previously, but Karmann was known to use old vendor stock from time to time when assembling 356 bodies. This suggests they were not very good at rotating stock in the warehouse and took a "last in-first out" approach; so if a vendor was delayed in making a parts delivery to Karmann, the older stock at the back of the shelves would eventually be pulled for use on the assembly line.

That is not to case with 65 356Cs. The headlight assys changed to the "2 and 7" orientation of the adjusting screws somewhere in the early porduction of 65 (year model) 356Cs. The earlier Cs has the adjusting screws at "5 and 7". The headlight assys are made specifically for 356s and are not VW units adapted for use in Porsche 356A and 356Bs.

Regards

[Alex Mestas]

Hi Guy's
My 1963 Karmann Coupe, (produced in 8/62) Hella headlights marked W3 for the third week in January of 1961, have the 5 & 7 adjusting screws positions.

[Jim Breazeale]

Hi Guy's
My 1963 Karmann Coupe, (produced in 8/62) Hella headlights marked W3 for the third week in January of 1961, have the 5 & 7 adjusting screws positions.

Alex

That is as it should be. Your headlight assy is a VW unit with the little light socket between the headlight glass and bulb, covered up with a piece of silver colored cardboard. What color is the seal for the headlight glass?

Regards

[Everett Barnes]

Most 'original' 356 headlamps I've disassembled have had black glass lens seals, most VW units have had the creamy-colored version.

Really? Every bucket-style (like a 356) VW headlamp unit I have ever seen had black lens seals.

I took apart 10 original pairs a few months ago, all were black. I have some NOS ones, they are black too.

[Alex Mestas]

Hi Jim:
My seals are black. Yes; the bucket has silver colored cardboard covering the socket.

Thanks,

[Jan Kolm]

I believe this has been discussed previously, but Karmann was known to use old vendor stock from time to time when assembling 356 bodies. This suggests they were not very good at rotating stock in the warehouse and took a "last in-first out" approach; so if a vendor was delayed in making a parts delivery to Karmann, the older stock at the back of the shelves would eventually be pulled for use on the assembly line.

That is not to case with 65 356Cs. The headlight assys changed to the "2 and 7" orientation of the adjusting screws somewhere in the early porduction of 65 (year model) 356Cs. The earlier Cs has the adjusting screws at "5 and 7". The headlight assys are made specifically for 356s and are not VW units adapted for use in Porsche 356A and 356Bs.

Regards

This is exactly the part in question. Hella started production of the new headlight design in the fall of 1963 and they started appearing on 356Cs around November/December (there is an unrestored, plain hubcap, early C locally that has them from the factory). However, many later 356Cs (all Karmann-bodied I believe) were assembled with the older 5/7 o'clock units--check your shelves--I bet you won't find any with "A" (1964) or "B" (1965) date stamps.

Also, the modified VW buckets disappeared sometime in the 1962 model year--late T6 356Bs do not have the parking light hole.

Thanks,

[Bruce Baker]

Most 'original' 356 headlamps I've disassembled have had black glass lens seals, most VW units have had the creamy-colored version.

Really? Every bucket-style (like a 356) VW headlamp unit I have ever seen had black lens seals.

I took apart 10 original pairs a few months ago, all were black. I have some NOS ones, they are black too.

No, really. My experience, not yours. The gist of the posting was that "most" "by memory" of 45 years with 356s and limited experience with VWs has given me that impression. I also said that only recently, like the last 15 years, have been a detail oriented time of minutia-awareness overall.

And there we go with the "original" and "NOS" terminology.....spilling over to the VW world, as well.

Yeah, I stopped the 'showing' of 356s when the politics and "originality" aspects got too clumsy and went racing (again).....maybe that's the better 'corner' for me in which to take my 'time out.' Oh? There isn't a 356 Racing Corner? Oh well, there must be some other place to go.....like back to work.

[Jim Breazeale]

I believe this has been discussed previously, but Karmann was known to use old vendor stock from time to time when assembling 356 bodies. This suggests they were not very good at rotating stock in the warehouse and took a "last in-first out" approach; so if a vendor was delayed in making a parts delivery to Karmann, the older stock at the back of the shelves would eventually be pulled for use on the assembly line.

That is not to case with 65 356Cs. The headlight assys changed to the "2 and 7" orientation of the adjusting screws somewhere in the early porduction of 65 (year model) 356Cs. The earlier Cs has the adjusting screws at "5 and 7". The headlight assys are made specifically for 356s and are not VW units adapted for use in Porsche 356A and 356Bs.

Regards

This is exactly the part in question. Hella started production of the new headlight design in the fall of 1963 and they started appearing on 356Cs around November/December (there is an unrestored, plain hubcap, early C locally that has them from the factory). However, many later 356Cs (all Karmann-bodied I believe) were assembled with the older 5/7 o'clock units--check your shelves--I bet you won't find any with "A" (1964) or "B" (1965) date stamps.

Also, the modified VW buckets disappeared sometime in the 1962 model year--late T6 356Bs do not have the parking light hole.

Thanks,

Jan

You are correct. The late 356BT6s also had the "modified" headlights. I don't think it is a good idea to make assumptions about which cars used a particular headlight, though. Can you be 100% sure that Reutter bodied cars did not get headlights with the "5 and 7" configuration. My shelves are full of bits and pieces of headlight assys from various years of 356s. I, like Bruce Baker, never gave a hoot about which unit came from which car, except for the late units. Sorry, but I never documented, nor cared about, whether Reutter or Karmann bodied cars had a particular headlight. You may be right, but it would be impossible to say beyond a doubt.

Regards

[Paul Hatfield]

Thought I would share a few pictures of what caused my sick mind to bring this subject up.
Below are shots of the off white color seal that is/was in my headlights. As you can see, it is ancient, and falling apart. It was also quite stuck to the glass- well, except for the part that tore away and into view.
Also shown is a close comparison to a headlight seal given to me this week by Curt Crowell. I believe these seals are the same color as the ones I am removing once were. Curt had a pair of these seals sitting around for years. He read this subject on 356 Talk and sent them to me at no charge! Thanks Curt.

I am not saying these seals are original, OEM, and the same as the Hella factory provided to Porsche for the 356 C cars. But, please note in the previous messages from Jim that the headlights CHANGED as production went into the 1965 356 C cars. Others have noted that they saw black seals in the 356 headlights, but the question is about 1965 356 C headlights- not all 356 headlights. 1000's of previous headlights with black seals does not mean the late 356 C ones were also black. So, I am saying these seals might be the correct OEM, same as provided by Hella to Porsche for late 356 C cars.

Anyway, I am installing the seals from Curt- right or not. If some original owner of a C car shows me his headlight, date code makes sense and the seal is black, then I stand to be corrected.

So, here are a few pictures. The top photo shows a remnant of the old seal in my hand next to the replacement seal. The old seal was the same shape and color.
Paul

[Jim Breazeale]

There has been some interesting banter and observations about this subject. Thanks, Paul for starting this thread. I think it just goes to show that there are no absolutes. White seals, grey seals, black seals............they are all good.

Regards

Jim