How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

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Larry Cloetta
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How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#1 Post by Larry Cloetta »

Will try to make this as short as possible, and leaving out some details to streamline it. First off, the question, followed by the backstory.
How long, in shop hours, does it take to remove and replace all four 356C brake calipers, and rebuild them while they are off the car? And is there any reason to remove the discs and dismantle the hubs as part of the process? I have done caliper rebuilds myself on this car, but was almost 30 years ago, so, though I have an idea, am looking for confirmation.

The backstory: June 26th I had driven over a significant mountain pass on an errand about 90 minutes away. Got to the bottom, luckily, and the piston stuck on the front left caliper, boiled the fluid, and completely lost the brakes. Pulled just off the road and pulled the wheel off to assess, in this very small town. While deciding what to do, guy pulls up and says he is a VW mechanic, shop is just up the road, and he can rebuild the caliper. Got the car to his shop, where it still sits after 3 months. Excuses, excuses, acts like he is on it, but it’s a big job (a little more to story than that, but have been put off constantly for months). Went over there to confront him, again, 12 days ago, car is still up on jack stands. Calipers are disassembled, cleaned, sort of, and he has now pulled the discs off the car and disassembled the hubs even past that a bit.) Drove over because he won’t return phone calls or reply to emails. There is no other visible work being done in the shop since I left the car there. Told him ten days ago that I needed the car back, finished or not, and to put the wheels back on so I could get it onto a flatbed wrecker this coming Thursday, Sept 29th, at the latest, and have it towed back over the pass. He still has not done that. Am thinking this is shaping up into some sort of legal battle, and just trying to get my ducks in a row for that possibility.

I’ve got a general idea of legitimate shop time involved from my past, somewhat remembered, experience, but PMB charges $800 for rebuilding all four, so that another point of reference. Just trying to get some hard estimates from people here as well.

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Martin Benade
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#2 Post by Martin Benade »

With a little luck he didn’t get a signature authorizing any work at all, or just calipers. Of course no wheels is a problem.
I have a friend in Cleveland that does stuff like that, he has good intentions but seems incapable of completing any work.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#3 Post by Al Zim »

We just finished discussing caliper rebuilding. It would probably be expedient to purchase NEW calipers from an aftermarket supplier. This will relieve the situation on rust in the bores of the calipers and the results of plating over rusty pitted calipers. WHILE YOU ARE THERE! It would be a good idea to make sure the front aluminum hubs are parallel with the wheels. The brake rotors are not below minimum specifications. You carefully examine the metal and rubber brake lines to make sure they are not cracked (rubber) or extremely rusted, metal. Since your car is valuable, it would be an excellent idea to switch to a dual master cylinder. It is a requirement that all 1967 and later cars have them. I would think that your not being impaled on the steering column from a crash would be an eye opening experience. Zim
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#4 Post by Larry Cloetta »

Thanks, Al. As it happens, on June 27th I ordered the dual master cylinder kit from your place and had it shipped to him Next Day Air, because I did not want his shop clogged up with cars awaiting parts any longer than necessary, for his sake. Kind of funny, in hindsight. (I used to live in Dallas and was over at your place all the time, spending money.) I'm not even thinking about getting the dual cylinder installed right now, I just need to get the car back here as is, and don't know how to do that if he won't put the wheels back on.

Any way, the question was, how many shop hours would it take to R&R the calipers, and do the rebuilds? I know you know the answer to that.

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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#5 Post by Larry Cloetta »

Martin, thanks for the response. No, he didn't get a signature for anything, and I definitely did not authorize him to pull the discs and wheel bearings off. I did not take a close look at exactly what he had done at the hub level when I was last over there, but it was more than necessary to do the calipers, and seemed a little "off".

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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#6 Post by Martin Benade »

Starting with your original question I’d think 2 or 3 hours each to rebuild, install and bleed would be about right.
As for getting your car, if the guy isn’t a terrible person your best bet is to be extra nice and do your best to convince him to put the wheels on, and pay him something. You desperately need his cooperation. Legally you probably have the upper hand, but that doesn’t get the wheels installed.
When I was raising my daughters I stressed that whatever you are doing, it goes smoother if you are nice to people. Even if they don’t deserve it.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#7 Post by Jay Darlington »

i'm with you Martin, it really does pay to be nice to people, to a point.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#8 Post by Larry Cloetta »

I understand that, but I have been nice to him, and that’s one reason it’s been there for 3 months. It’s not like it’s a busy shop. I’m not sure there has been another car worked on there the whole time. Hard for me to explain without people either knowing me or the complete story of what has gone on here, but failure to be nice definitely not the issue in this case. Never should have let this go down the way it has, as there were danger signals from day one, which I let pass. Like drug addiction, though that popped up later. And he’s been gaslighting me for months. There is much more to the story, but I’ve never experienced anything quite like this before, and I’m 72, and seen a lot of screwups, but this is something different from incompetence or laziness, or the mechanic is swamped. I don’t care that the calipers are not going to get done, I can do them myself if I can get the car back here, which, in hindsight is what I should have done, but he came along while the car was broken down, said he could do it, and, in the situation as it developed, I thought I was saving a long tow over a long mountain pass, and he seemed “nice”. The core problem is that he actually does not want to give the car back, and he’s got himself into a position that I can’t easily force it. I spoke with the County Sheriff this morning and they said there was nothing they could do, because as long as he says he will work on it someday, he won’t be breaking any laws, even if he never touches the car for years. Sheriff told me my only option was to get an attorney and see what they could do, which I am working on now. My reason for asking here how many shop hours would be the standard is that I was seeking expert opinion which I could use to buttress what looks like a case in an impending legal situation. I drove all the way over there today to talk to him again, because he won’t answer the phone, or return calls. He told me he would put the wheels back on the car tomorrow so I could truck it back here, and I am reasonably certain it’s just another lie like all the other ones that have preceded it, and nothing is going to happen tomorrow or any other day, but now I do need to wait a while longer to give him another chance, while I talk it over with an attorney.
My wife is usually the one who eventually steps in to get things done, because, “you’ll never get anything done, because you are too nice to people; they never think you mean it.”

Anyway, anyone else with estimates on required shop time would still be welcome to chime in, and thank you, Martin, for your estimate. I was thinking it would take me 10-12 hours for the four, which probably does not include adequate bleeding if I remember my past experience:)

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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#9 Post by Adam Wright »

I would show up tomorrow and load the car, if the wheels are not back on attempt to do it yourself, bring some friends. Oh, and offer him some money, for his trouble. I know it sounds crazy to pay him for the nothing he has done, but getting your car out of there is the objective. And you'll spend a lot more on an attorney. I would bring 2 friends, and give him $1000. I bet you'll have your car back.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#10 Post by Martin Benade »

I’m sorry you are in the middle of this mess. The previous suggestion sounds pretty good. Or here’s my version- show up in a few days with tools and tell him you are going to stick the wheels on. Bring a homemade waiver you’ll give him saying he’s not responsible if you get hurt. Maybe he’d go for it.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#11 Post by Mike Wilson »

And have him sign off PAID IN FULL.

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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#12 Post by David Jones »

I think I would call my insurance company and ask them to step in. They don't want to have to pay out for a car that is effectively getting stolen in broad daylight.
As far as moving the car goes, wheels or not a good recovery company will have dollies to move the car with and winch it on to a rollback.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#13 Post by Martin Benade »

Unfortunately the dollys are meant to hold the car’s wheels. If a car has a wheel torn off they just drag that corner.
If the guy has a substance abuse problem, money may be very appealing to him.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#14 Post by Adam Wright »

We don't know what game he is playing. He likes having the car around or he really hopes to get to it, or he's lazy/crazy, etc. But showing up with friends will get his attention, and then giving him a handsome way out, money, might get him to see the game is up, whatever the game may be. And if it doesn't work, you know you are really in trouble and can take steps accordingly with legal means, etc.
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Re: How long does it take to rebuild 356C calipers/possible scam

#15 Post by Larry Cloetta »

Good ideas, thanks. I don’t mind paying him, and told him as much. I just want the car back, before things get snowed in here. Have talked to the local wrecker companies and nobody has facilities for getting a car on the flatbed unless it rolls on. But, good ideas about showing up with friends and cash. And the insurance company, I had not considered trying that.
Thanks.

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