Sticking Door Latch

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#46 Post by Mike Wilson »

I've had to massage those as well, Hugo.

Mike
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Wayne Arny
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#47 Post by Wayne Arny »

More frustration today. The good news is that after letting the handle and seal cool overnight, it did look like it move into a better position. Yesterday, in order to get it into the groove I put the handle, with the seal partially installed into a pot of hot water, and then I put it on the stove on "warm." That got it in, but I think it also "enlarged" it. Thus, after sitting all night it looked to be in the right position. I think I should be able to get the locking mechanism into the handle, but for these next frustrations!

No matter how much I use Kroil or the white lithium grease, the key still sticks, and it sticks badly if I try to remove it with the locking bar in, in the open position. I have to have it in the "locked" position to get it out, and then it's not always smooth and easy.

Secondly, while I am able to engage the locking bar with the tumbler, and turning the key moves the bar in and out, I think it's still not set up to be in the right position once I do solve the key issue above.

Check the pics below. You'll see that the locking bar is out, and the screw is installed, and the key is out. As I see it, there is only one way for this assembly to go in the handle, as the "slot" on the middle part of the assembly (and right under the extended part of the locking bar) allows the assembly to go into the handle in only one position.

And that position is demonstrated in the second pic. It may seem a bit confusing at first, but let me try to explain. Remember, I can't get the key out with it "unlocked," so I'm only trying to show that even if I had been able to "unlock" it and install it, I think it would be positioned incorrectly.

I aligned the slot on the middle portion of the assembly with the guide tab inside the handle. What I see is that if I had put it all together, and locked the door, the key slot should be perpendicular to the door handle, and it's not. And if it were in the unlock position, it should be aligned with the handle and it would not be. And I could go on!
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IMG_9226.jpg
IMG_9227.jpg

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Wayne Arny
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#48 Post by Wayne Arny »

Well, to add another factor into the situation, I went down to check on the alignment of the lock on the driver side door on the '60. And then I looked at the alignment on the '57!!! It's 180 degrees out! (See pics below.) And both work as they are supposed to. Am I going nuts? Was there a change of some sort from the A to the B? What's going on, and what do I do next? Thanks again for all your knowledge and experience... and patience!

Wayne
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Driver's side: '60B Cab
Driver's side: '60B Cab
Driver's side: '57A Coupe (late A)
Driver's side: '57A Coupe (late A)

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Martin Benade
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#49 Post by Martin Benade »

Did someone already mix in some parts from the other side? I’m pretty sure at least some of the push button parts are “handed” but can fit the wrong side.
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Wayne Arny
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#50 Post by Wayne Arny »

Maybe they switched from Driver side to Passenger side?? I have no idea. This car is still new to me. I'm hoping that someone on the Forum can answer that. Is it time to go to a locksmith? Tony Euganeo used to be the go-to guy, but he was always backed up with work. Is he still working? Is there anyone else? Should I try to find someone in the DC/Virginia/Maryland area? And if so, what questions do I ask to make sure they know what they're doing?? Aargh!! Thanks, again!

Hugo Karasawa
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#51 Post by Hugo Karasawa »

Wayne,
Did you read Brad Ripley´s article on reassembling door handles ? He explains everything about these door locks.
Here some pointers:
1.- The handles are the same for both sides.
2.- The cylinder lock receivers are different for each side.
3.- The lock cylinders are different for each side. The grub screw is in a different position on each side.
4, -When unlocked the key should be horizontal with the teeth pointing to the rear of the car.
5.- When locked, the key should be vertical and the teeth pointing down.
6.- The lock tab can be installed in four different positions, only two are correct.

Now, I think the problem you have is that the locking tab is not returning completely to its open position and does not let the lock cylinder to return to the fully open position, that is why you cannot remove the key. Before going to the locksmith, check if you assembled the lock correctly. Do the tests without the spring and the E clip, it is easier to do it.

I bought a key from Tony Euganeo a couple of weeks ago, I do not know if he is doing repairs.

Here some pictures of how your right hand handle and internal parts should look.

Handle with the guide up.
Handle 8.jpg

Unlocked position, key horizontal, teeth facing to the rear.
handle 20.jpg
handle 15.jpg

Locked position, key vertical, teeth pointing down.
handle 19.jpg
handle 18.jpg


Cylinder lock receiver , unlocked position. Note the cylinder in the handle should be rotated 180 degrees. The picture shows the position of the grub screw.
That is the difference of the right and left parts.
Handle 6 right unlocked tab.jpg


Cylinder lock receiver, locked position. Same Note as above,
Handle 7 right locked tab.jpg
Last edited by Hugo Karasawa on Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hugo Karasawa
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#52 Post by Hugo Karasawa »

Here a picture of the differences of the left an right cylinder lock receivers and cylinder locks
grub screw and slot are in different position on each side.
handle 25.jpg

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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#53 Post by Hugo Karasawa »

In post #47 you show pictures with the tab in the locked position, in that position it should be unlocked. I compared with my right handle and in that position it is unlocked.
Here the pictures from my right handle in the unlocked position.
I tried to take the pictures like yours so you can compare.
The locking tab should be flush.
handle 29.jpg
handle 27.jpg
It all depends how the locking tab is placed. Mark the sides of the locking tab and do some tests until you have the correct position.
tab.jpg

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Rick Albro
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#54 Post by Rick Albro »

I try not to comment on the newer items... I think that the above comments are going down the right path... you might have a mix of left and right parts or maybe two rights or two lefts... Start by making sure that your orientation is correct. See the image below. Note the wide side and the short side and orient the chiral piece as in the image. If you can not achieve this orientation then you may very well have mixed parts... You can not remove the key in the open position because the pins need to move into the void as the key is withdrawn. If you have your chirality off then then is no void space for the pins to move into... In a leaning exercise try orienting the slide flipped over along and across the piece. The correct orientation the lock will work... in the other orientations the lock will not work... This is a fun puzzle if you do not need to solve it to keep your sanity... If you do want to remain somewhat sane this can be very frustrating...
orientation.jpg

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Wayne Arny
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#55 Post by Wayne Arny »

Hugo, Rick, I think I do have Brad's short treatise; however, it was not as clear as you have made it above. I will take some time this afternoon to apply the above to my situation.

The other odd thing is that on my '57 the key position for open does have the slot horizontal, but the teeth face forward! And I just rechecked, and they've been that way some thirty years I've owned it, and they work. They've been off and back on, but never opened up.

But on the Driver's side of the '60, the key position has the teeth facing aft! As you describe it should be.

I've been driving a 356 regularly since 1963, and for the life of me it is something I never really took notice of until now!!

Thanks! And I'll continue the updates!

Best,

Wayne

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Wayne Arny
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#56 Post by Wayne Arny »

Here's today's update. Summary; channel is the handle is a tad too small, I suspect; key and tumbler fit in correctly; finally got key out in lock position; but movement way too constricted; took out seal.

The first pictures below are of the lock in the open position with a shot of where the grub screw will be. I think it is correct relative to the pictures above.

The second set of two pics are of the lock in the "almost locked" position, which is as far as I could get it before, or thought I could. Note the position of the grub screw hole, in that it is not at the end of the slot.

The third set of two shows the lock fully in the "lock" position, and the key is out! And the grub screw hole is at the end of the slot!

So, the lock does work as it is supposed to in that respect. The problem I have now, aside from no seal, is that in order to get it "unlocked" I had to grab the barrel of the handle part with a pair of pliers and turn the key hard to the right. Once it got beyond that first little tough bit it worked fine, but it's not right.

Here's my suspicion and potential solution, which I throw out to the experts here. I suspect the tumbler mechanism may be original, or at least purchased separately from the handle. And that the handle, as a clear reproduction, was not machined wide enough in the receiving channel to accommodate the tumbler. If I'm right, then I think I need to use my jewelers file and begin to open up the channel until the tumbler mechanism fits into the channel more smoothly and moves from the unlock to the lock position smoothly.

As for the seal, no idea yet, other than to just leave it out.

Thoughts???

And thanks again to everyone's help here!

Wayne
Attachments
Open position
Open position
Grub screw hole in open
Grub screw hole in open
Partially "locked"
Partially "locked"
Grub screw not in correct spot
Grub screw not in correct spot
Locked position; key out
Locked position; key out
Grub screw in correct spot
Grub screw in correct spot

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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#57 Post by Hugo Karasawa »

The lock was completely assembled when you tested it and had difficulty to turn it to the locked position, was the grub screw in place ?
Does the locking tab move freely in the slot ? mine were bent and had to straighten and sand those.
Check if there is some interference between the cylinder lock an the cylinder lock receiver. Check for scratches on the lock cylinder.
Check if the lock cylinder is bottoming out inside the cylinder lock receiver, see if there are burrs inside.
File or sand the inside ridges.

No expert here, just had to solve some problems with repro locks. Had to buy a complete kit ,ignition switch and door locks, my car had three different keys.

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#58 Post by Mike Wilson »

I'm thinking there is a combination of original and repro parts. It sounds like the handles are repros because they are not stamped with a K number. Hugo has provided excellent pics of the way they should fit. Try to duplicate those.

Mike
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'63 B coupe

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Wes Bender
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#59 Post by Wes Bender »

If, at some point, any re-chroming was done, it may have resulted in having insufficient clearance for it to work properly.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Sticking Door Latch

#60 Post by Mike Wilson »

I've run into that as well, Wes, especially the fit of the tumbler to receiver and the receiver to handle grooves.

Mike
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