Chassis number history

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Doug McDonnell
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Chassis number history

#1 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Just so members are aware. Even if data is imported from the old VinDb to the current Chassis number the info imported is incomplete and future owners are loosing a lot of documentation. For example I give you 221045 which I documented some of in my "Winter Outlaw Project" thread. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42619&hilit=winter+project When I first saw the car on Ebay I did some checking and found that the owner had only put 4K miles on it in the 8 years he owned it. Since the 2 previous owners noted in the VinDb were Motor Cities Group Member here in Michigan I contacted them both and had discussions about the history of the car, including the color change from Dolphin Grey to red and from stock to Outlaw. Easy to do because both were on the VinDn entries. Well now after importation from the old VinDb all that previous owner information is lost to future owners. A sad state of affairs in my opinion.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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C J Murray
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Re: Chassis number history

#2 Post by C J Murray »

Hi Doug. I think your concerns are premature. I did create the new Chassis Number History database but I don't have the skills required to transfer the 30,000 plus car records from the old site. Michael Branning is working with expert contractors to get that data transferred. They started with 3000 records from the old "members cars" section but there are 30,000 more records that were collected by Bill Block and many others. They are working on that project.

I see that you have entered your C coupe into the new CNH database. That is what every member needs to do if they really care about the detailed history of our cars. No previous records kept have anything even close to the detail tracked by the new CNH. The members who have already entered their cars have done a great service to anyone who researches these cars in the future. Because the CNH is structured and has such detail it can be searched instantly by any chosen small detail. Look at the search function of CNH and click it to see the many ways to filter your search. Model, color, options, engine type, and much more.

To see the value of the CNH compare the listings that have a member name vs the old records that have "unknown" as the owner name. Example:

https://356registry.clubexpress.com/con ... _id=464150

https://356registry.clubexpress.com/con ... _id=469174
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Chassis number history

#3 Post by Doug McDonnell »

My fear is that they may not know that on the old site after you search for a chassis number you see farther back older owners by then again clicking on the chassis number that your search showed. The old site showed that the above car was owned by Bill Demeter and prior to him by Richard Beecher. Currently shows when I had it and the person I sold it to. Both of those entries were imported but not Bill or Richard.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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C J Murray
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Re: Chassis number history

#4 Post by C J Murray »

Doug McDonnell wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:32 pm My fear is that they may not know that on the old site after you search for a chassis number you see farther back older owners by then again clicking on the chassis number that your search showed.
If there are multiple entries for a serial number on the old system then there will be multiple entries on the CNH database.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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Michael Branning
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Re: Chassis number history

#5 Post by Michael Branning »

Doug, Cliff is right - the intent is there will be multiple records for some cars, which represent data reported at different times by different people.

The old VIN DB database had almost no data hygiene controls and as such, is pretty messy and inconsistent. Cliff has been the visionary on how to set up the Chassis Number History database to capture good data going forward and put a lot of work into setting it up.

I’m working with our contractor on data conversion/imports. The legacy Members Cars database was simpler in structure, so we did it first. VIN DB is much bigger, with more data, and more disorganization. Bob is currently writing code to take the old VIN Database records, which are in a relational database (cars, condition, engines, transmissions), and convert them to a flat file format that is compatible with the database built into ClubExpress. Part of the code will validate chassis numbers and map them to model year, model, and body type. There is duplicate data because the old database was “write only” and if a member entered a number wrong then they could only enter the right one in a new record.

Once the scripts are written, we’ll run some tests and examine the data, then revise the scripts until the import file is solid. Then we will import the data, which will go in over several days, record by record, with automation. I’m hopeful this will be done by the end of August.
Michael Branning
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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Chassis number history

#6 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Thanks Michael Let me know when done as I have 2 chassis numbers to check as I have had them.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Al Zim
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Re: Chassis number history

#7 Post by Al Zim »

Chassis numbers never moved smoothly. It is my guess that as the frame came into the Reutter factory it received a number that was correct for the final product. Down the line things happened to the chassis. Getting a sun roof required extra time, certain engines may not have been immediately available and the vehicle had to wait (not for long) for it to show up. ALL this is recorded in the Reutter books that were similar to bound notebooks that I (we) were used in Junior and Senior high school. PORSCHE HAS THESE BOOKS! I doubt you will ever see them. Car is listed by date it came to the factory and Porsche was billed for the car. As soon as the body was paid for a notation was made in the book. EVERY SINGLE THING THAT WAS DONE ON THE CAR WAS RECORDED. Key numbers seats, modifications for the sale in specific countries. I was fortunate at the factory to have the opportunity to photocopy the page of the book that my 1957 coupe was listed. This list also includes race cars. Unfortunately the printing is small (each car gets one line including payment info) and in some sort of code.
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Martin Benade
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Re: Chassis number history

#8 Post by Martin Benade »

Welcome back!
Cleveland Ohio
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Dave Erickson
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Re: Chassis number history

#9 Post by Dave Erickson »

Martin Benade wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:03 pm Welcome back!
+1

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Michael Branning
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Re: Chassis number history

#10 Post by Michael Branning »

We have now imported the vast majority of the VIN DB and the Members cars data into the Chassis Number History section. You’ll find over 21,400 entries which are fully searchable here: https://porsche356registry.org/content. ... _id=579966

Cliff Murray did a great write up on how to search in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54296&p=411888&hili ... er#p411888

If you don’t find what you want by selecting a specific entry, like color (say “Irish Green”) - try again by resetting the search and entering the text in the “History - Known and Legend” box. Most of the VIN DB data has been moved there because it would not match up to the precise definitions allowed in the various fields (for instance "interior color").

Remember, the data is only as good as what was in the database.
Michael Branning
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C J Murray
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Re: Chassis number history

#11 Post by C J Murray »

Dear members, please message me if you need help with the Chassis Number History.

Some things to know:

1- Records that show up as "Unknown" are from the "old" database which had many sources.

2- Records that show up with a member name have been entered since the "new" database was created some months ago.

3- When a member enters their car today in the new database the amount of data that can be entered is immense. When filled out thoroughly the new database allows an incredibly detailed description of the car.

4- If you have entered your car in the old system, data that is now transferred to the new system, your old entry tells very little about your car.

5- You should enter your car into the new database through "profile" in the website and you will be doing a great service to those who like to research how these cars were made and what sort of life they have lived.

6- You can experiment with the search function to see how the old entries differ from the new entries.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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Wes Bender
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Re: Chassis number history

#12 Post by Wes Bender »

Thanks Cliff. Good job by all concerned and an excellent resource for us.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

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