356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
FYI
The author of: The Rear View Mirror and the Horse, Richard von Frankenberg (4 March 1922 in Darmstadt – 11 November 1973 in Beilstein[1]) was a German journalist and race car driver.
He took part in many 24 Hours of Le Mans in the 1950s, as well as in races at Mille Miglia, Montlhery, Monza and Nürburgring, often with a Porsche 550, the type of car he became famous for, when crashing over the banking of the AVUS in Berlin. The Porsche slid over the top and Frankenberg was thrown out, which was caught on photos like this one[permanent dead link]. He survived with minor injuries – unlike Jean Behra who was killed in a similar accident in 1959.
Frankenberg was killed in a roadway accident in 1973 at age 51.
The author of: The Rear View Mirror and the Horse, Richard von Frankenberg (4 March 1922 in Darmstadt – 11 November 1973 in Beilstein[1]) was a German journalist and race car driver.
He took part in many 24 Hours of Le Mans in the 1950s, as well as in races at Mille Miglia, Montlhery, Monza and Nürburgring, often with a Porsche 550, the type of car he became famous for, when crashing over the banking of the AVUS in Berlin. The Porsche slid over the top and Frankenberg was thrown out, which was caught on photos like this one[permanent dead link]. He survived with minor injuries – unlike Jean Behra who was killed in a similar accident in 1959.
Frankenberg was killed in a roadway accident in 1973 at age 51.
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Last edited by Chip Flor on Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- 356 Fan
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
A member of our local 356 group, ( and the Registry), ordered his C coupe in 1963 without an outside mirror. It arrived in April of '64. The car was sold a couple of years ago and still has never had an outside mirror mounted.
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
A drivers side mirror (along with a center mirror) is required in most states. Those states that don't, require them if the center mirror is obstructed. Which means if you put any items that partially obstruct your view you would be in violation.
Most importantly why would you risk yours and others safety changing lanes. Mirrors are there for a reason.
I am amazed that this 356 has been dodging the cops for 55 years!!! The original Outlaw!
Most importantly why would you risk yours and others safety changing lanes. Mirrors are there for a reason.
I am amazed that this 356 has been dodging the cops for 55 years!!! The original Outlaw!
Last edited by Chip Flor on Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Joris Koning
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Netherlands
Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
Chip, I have one of these NOS patiently waiting to be installed on my '56 as soon as it returns from Dave DiMaria's shop. They are made by Hella. Happy to take a picture if this helps
'56 Coupe
'57 Coupe
'59 Cab
'60 Coupe
'57 Coupe
'59 Cab
'60 Coupe
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
Hell yes!!... Pics would be great!
With the gaps so tight on our cars it would be interesting to see how this mirror clamps on to the body.
All of these early accessories are cool! Hens teeth in the real world! I love this stuff!
Joris I'm a big fan! No one knows T-1's better than you!
With the gaps so tight on our cars it would be interesting to see how this mirror clamps on to the body.
All of these early accessories are cool! Hens teeth in the real world! I love this stuff!
Joris I'm a big fan! No one knows T-1's better than you!
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- 356 Fan
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- Tag: Official curmudgeon
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
I have always mounted my mirrors on the fenders as they are more functional without having to turn your head toward the left or right.
I don't believe there is any standard location, it just happened the factory chose the left doo.
I use the Lucas mirrors flat or convex
The rt door mounted mirror is obstructed by the vent window on the later cars.
Why be like someone else just because!
I don't believe there is any standard location, it just happened the factory chose the left doo.
I use the Lucas mirrors flat or convex
The rt door mounted mirror is obstructed by the vent window on the later cars.
Why be like someone else just because!
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
Since in many cases everyone is legally required to have a drivers side rear view mirror...
Many might find information as to what the factory recommended and sold useful when attempting to make their car as correct and original as possible.
Since there exists a factory A parts book where in section 68 (page 556) lists part 644.78.801 Rear view mirror "Ponto Stabil", mounted on fender (proof the factory intended it to be fender mounted)
Plus the Christophorus article: The Rear Mirror and the Horse which states the Ponto Stabil as a factory recommendation and through photos shows the location (on the fender) of this mirror, this pretty much "etches in stone" this as a factory application.
This information gives every T-1 and pre A owner an accurate and dependable resource as to what the factory intended for their car.
Like I said earlier, anyone can put whatever they want on their car, however an informed decision is better than an uninformed decision especially when drilling holes in your valuable collector car.
Many might find information as to what the factory recommended and sold useful when attempting to make their car as correct and original as possible.
Since there exists a factory A parts book where in section 68 (page 556) lists part 644.78.801 Rear view mirror "Ponto Stabil", mounted on fender (proof the factory intended it to be fender mounted)
Plus the Christophorus article: The Rear Mirror and the Horse which states the Ponto Stabil as a factory recommendation and through photos shows the location (on the fender) of this mirror, this pretty much "etches in stone" this as a factory application.
This information gives every T-1 and pre A owner an accurate and dependable resource as to what the factory intended for their car.
Like I said earlier, anyone can put whatever they want on their car, however an informed decision is better than an uninformed decision especially when drilling holes in your valuable collector car.
Last edited by Chip Flor on Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:07 pm, edited 8 times in total.
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
Here is a pic of the 356 A Porsche factory parts manual.
Section 68 page 556.
Section 68 page 556.
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- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
Also in the parts book there lists part 644.731.111.00. I believe this to be the "Aero" mirror. It is denoted as saying it is "door mounted".
If you look at the application for which models utilized the "Aero" mirror, it has the box for the Coupe and the Speedster checked . The Cabriolet is NOT checked.
This information corroborates Steve's suggestion and the reiterates the consistency of the factory T-2 photos that the Cabs with the wing window utilized the Ponto Stabil door mounted mirror (not the Aero).
Below are photos from section 68, page 556 in the Factory A parts manual which proves this point.
If you look at the application for which models utilized the "Aero" mirror, it has the box for the Coupe and the Speedster checked . The Cabriolet is NOT checked.
This information corroborates Steve's suggestion and the reiterates the consistency of the factory T-2 photos that the Cabs with the wing window utilized the Ponto Stabil door mounted mirror (not the Aero).
Below are photos from section 68, page 556 in the Factory A parts manual which proves this point.
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- Joris Koning
- 356 Fan
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
Hi Chip,
See attached pictures. Hope these help. Mirror is marked Hella and made in Germany on the back. I have only seen reference of it in the accessory brochure and have never seen it mentioned on a Kardex.
Best,
Joris
See attached pictures. Hope these help. Mirror is marked Hella and made in Germany on the back. I have only seen reference of it in the accessory brochure and have never seen it mentioned on a Kardex.
Best,
Joris
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'56 Coupe
'57 Coupe
'59 Cab
'60 Coupe
'57 Coupe
'59 Cab
'60 Coupe
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
AWESOME!!!!..... WHAT A MAGNIFICENT ORIGINAL ACCESSORY PIECE!!!!!!
Thank you for providing these photos. I relish the original parts like this. What a treasure!!!
Thanks again Joris!!!
Thank you for providing these photos. I relish the original parts like this. What a treasure!!!
Thanks again Joris!!!
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
Aero Mirror.
Notice the slight curve inward.
This is something the repo's don't have and also how you can spot an original.
Notice the slight curve inward.
This is something the repo's don't have and also how you can spot an original.
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Last edited by Chip Flor on Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
color factory pic of T-1's
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- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
T-1 with fender Ponto
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- Chip Flor
- 356 Fan
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS
T-1's and T-2 at Treffen 1958or 59.
Check out all the T-1 and T-2 differences long distance.
Notice the sunroof and mirrors of the first (bottom) white car and the Ruby Red burgundy car (left)
Check out all the T-1 and T-2 differences long distance.
Notice the sunroof and mirrors of the first (bottom) white car and the Ruby Red burgundy car (left)
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Last edited by Chip Flor on Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.