356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

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Chip Flor
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356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#1 Post by Chip Flor »

One of the most common misconceptions about 356 mirrors is that the "Kidney" shaped Ponto Stabil mirror is commonly known as the "B" mirror. From my research I have found that the factory first utilized the "Kidney" shaped Ponto Stabil styled mirrors (mounted on the fender) as early as the pre-A's. It is listed in the 356 "A" parts book as part: 644.78.801 rear view mirror "Ponto Stabil" mounted on fender. I have scoured Christophorus and and also found a number of factory photographs which establish fender fitted mirrors with the Ponto Stabil styled mirrors on pre A's and T-1's. Here are a few of the pics:
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Chip Flor
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#2 Post by Chip Flor »

more pics:
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Chip Flor
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#3 Post by Chip Flor »

The fender mounted mirrors had one big drawback... the antenna had the potential of partially blocking the view.
I'm not for sure certain... however it would make sense that Porsche moved the mirror location to the door with the advent of the T-2 (i.e. the door access plug see below last pic).
It would make sense that the first door mounted mirrors were a direct result of this factory modification.

With the advent of the door access plug it would be safe to say the T-1 and earlier pre A's would have more than likely had fender mounted mirrors. Somewhere in the divide between the T-1 and the T-2 the separation between fender mounted and door mounted mirrors took place. The consistency of the factory/published period photos with fender mounted mirrors up to the advent of the factory mirror access modification, is self evident of this change.
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Last edited by Chip Flor on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:22 am, edited 9 times in total.
 

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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#4 Post by Chip Flor »

So it would be safe to say the "Aero" mirror would have began to have shown up with T-2's. Nowhere have I found any supporting period photos ever showing an Areo mirror mounted on a fender (i.e. its more than likely a door mounted mirror).
I have a pic of an "Aero" mirror that was in the sales literature in 1959 on a convertible D. Also I found several in Conradt's book: Porsche 356 Driving in it's Purest Form. Also, several B's were noted to have utilized this Aero mirror.
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Dennis Molnar
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#5 Post by Dennis Molnar »

I believe the Lucas style round wing mirrors are more commonly used on the early 356 cars mostly 1956 and earlier.
Dennis Molnar #9083
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Chip Flor
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#6 Post by Chip Flor »

For the record, without question the Ponto Stabil mirror was utilized by the factory as evident of these photos since the 1950's. To suggest that the Ponto Stabil mirror was the "usual" mirror for only the "B" is not accurate. Secondly, to infer that the Aero mirror is the status quo mirror for the 356's A is also somewhat misleading (T-1 fender mounted Ponto Stabil vs T-2 door mounted Aero or Ponto Stabil mirrors)

To be fair, in Brett's book he does state: "Several period photos showed the Ponto Stabil mirrors on 356 A's."

Regrettably he does not say that Ponto Stabil mirrors were ever fender mounted on T-1's, nor does he say anything about them as fender mounted on pre A's.
This should be noted.
Last edited by Chip Flor on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:51 am, edited 12 times in total.
 

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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#7 Post by Chip Flor »

Here is a plethora of T-2 factory photos which contain both the Aero and the Ponto Stabil mirror. The Ponto Stabil mirror was utilized continuously up through the 356 B's. Again to infer this mirror as a "B" (only) mirror is an oversight .
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#8 Post by Chip Flor »

more factory T-2 photos:
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#9 Post by Chip Flor »

and more:
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#10 Post by Chip Flor »

I hope this clears up any misconceptions. If anyone has other period photos as represented by the factory please add them for clarity.
thanks
-chip
 

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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#11 Post by Brad Ripley »

From my knowledge, "early" cars did not have an outside mirror as standard equipment in spite of PR photos showing various mirrors. But it does seem that by the 356C, a "Durant" mirror came on all cars. Proof might be to see new car invoices where the mirror might have been, or not, an extra charge?

Brett, where are we on this question in your new book?

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Chip Flor
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#12 Post by Chip Flor »

Factory published period dated photos are pretty much indisputable evidence as to what "the factory" did and when they did it.

In addition in the 356 "A" parts book in section 68 page 556 it lists part: 644.78.801 rear view mirror "Ponto Stabil" mounted on fender.

I am presenting factory photos as per what would be considered correct (i.e. for a T-1 or Pre A with fender mounted mirrors vs T-2 with what possible choices for door mounted mirrors) ...this is all based by the factory published Christophorus and other shared factory photos.

But since you mentioned it... here is the factory "A" accessory mirror as per the factory Accessories Catalogue. I personally have never seen one of these.

Also noted, I've seen truly odd mirrors mounted to original cars. At the Monterey Historic's two or so years ago, I saw what appeared to be an all original T-1 with a fender mounted mirror from an american car (potmetal pits and all). I guess anyone could have put whatever they wanted on their cars.
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#13 Post by Steve Douglas »

Hi, Chip, It was my understanding that the in the T-2 coupes the Areo mirror was introduced, but with cars with vent windows the Ponto was installed. Something to do with view obstruction. The Pontos were installed in the same positions the Areo but they have a shorter and more upright base. I had a 58 Coupe with the auxiliary wind wings factory installed and Kardex showed Ponto mirror. Jim Barrington's 59 GT had a Ponto and vent windows. Cabs also had vent windows. Many Druaz cars had Pontos. I have seen some of the fender mounted mirrors on T-1 cars that were obviously dealer or owner installed, outside mirrors were not required in some countries, so a car imported later would need to have the mirror installed to comply with US laws. Speedsters have such wonderful viewing thru the side curtains so fender mount may have been considered better choice. Nice to see all of the different types installed that you have found, conclusion? Kardex may show original brand, otherwise what ever you have may be original....

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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#14 Post by Chip Flor »

Great info Steve, great call between the (vent) wing windows and non wing windowed cars. This is a perfect explanation as to why the difference in mirrors on the T-2's.
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Re: 356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

#15 Post by Chip Flor »

In the Best of Christophorus (1956-1962) there is an article written by Richard von Frankenberg titled: The Rear View Mirror and the Horse.

In the article (page 23-25) he describes the mirror pictured in the article. (enclosed are the pics which give us an idea of what time period he is speaking of)
In his article he states: "The attached picture shows the type of rear mirror which at present is built into every regular Porsche and recommended by the factory. The "kidney" shape is at once modern and attractive. It reminds me somewhat of a shape of modern coffee tables. ...."

Given that this is a factory publication, and he is speaking of a factory "recommendation" as to which mirror the factory suggests using, it might be presumptuous of me...but it clearly shows what mirror "the factory" suggests for those who don't already have a rear view mirror installed on their cars.

In addition in the 356 "A" parts book in section 68 page 556 it mentions part 644.78.801 rear view mirror "Ponto Stabil" mounted on fender.

Below are the photos from the article. It can be viewed in the pic with the lady hanging her head out the window the "pre A" dashboard. In the other photo it is very clear this mirror they speak of is a fender mounted Ponto Stabil mirror.

The factory article, published in a factory magazine, referencing the Porsche factory recommendation,and the listing in the factory A" part book, Is a roadmap to authenticity for the Ponto Stabil mirror application during this time.
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