356 AUTHENTICITY AND THE EARLY FENDER MOUNTED MIRRORS

[Brett Johnson]

The assembly photo is actually from MY 1967. You can see the individual letters on what are mostly 912 rear lids. There is also a 911S engine with red shroud toward the front on the far right.

[Brett Johnson]

Wish I'd read this thread sooner. I would have fleshed out the exterior mirror section in the book. I will try to make up for this in the "option project" I am presenting in the magazine and will begin appearing on the website little by little as I write, edit and organize it. I am currently doing it based on photos that I have from the book or those that I am sent.

Mirror information that is presented in factory documents include Illustration 42 from the 1955 parts catalog presented earlier. It shows a fender mounted mirror and one that clips to the fender in the door gap. These mirrors were made by a variety of manufacturers with only a few recorded on Kardexes -- more about that later. The information I have from James Davies is that the following manufacturers produced these mirrors: Albert, Frese, Hella, Huma, Seima and Süpra. Aero and Ponto-Stabil mirrors are also seen in period photos. I would like good quality color images of any/all of these for the magazine/website. I can be reached at: 356drb@gmail.com I need original photos, not ones from other websites.

Factory accessories manuals do not start until around 1956 356A and the photo in the earliest one (in English only) looks like the clip-on Hella mirror that Joris provided. The next 356A brochure dated September 1957 shows an Aero mirror on a door and states that it is standard only in Germany (from this point on). The mirror access hole was added May 1957 allowing the mirror to be fitted without dismantling the door. The same photo appears in later 356A and early T 5 356B brochures. The 12/61 brochure shows a Talbot mirror with a gray seal. I do not have access to a T 6 356B dealer listing at this time. The detailed 356C dealer brochure from 10/63 shows a Durant. The Ponto-Stabil mirror is never illustrated. Left side door mirrors were standard on US cars from 1968.

More detail on early cars next!

[Brett Johnson]

Kardex listed exterior mirrors begin in August 1951. As always, many Kardexes do not have detailed information and most that listed exterior mirror do not include brand names but...

Aero 1 1955 -- Germany
Kontakt many 12/52 - 11/55 -- mostly Germany
Lucas (!) 2 10/53 & 7/54 -- both Germany
Ponto 2 late 1955 -- both Germany

Exterior mirrors were required by law in Germany as of April 1956 with a grace period until November 1956 per Jules Dielen!

[Dennis Vogel]

The same photo appears in later 356A and early T 5 356B brochures. The 12/61 brochure shows a Talbot mirror with a gray seal.

Hi Brett. Were the Talbot mirrors ever fender mounted on a T5? I'm looking at your book and the example photos are door mount.

Our car has at mirror marked Talbot & Co - Berlin mounted very far forward on the fender, but I am doubtful it is original. I am pretty sure the paint is original.

[Brett Johnson]

Talbot bullet mirrors generally came in pairs and were usually installed by the dealer/owner.

The Talbot mirror I mentioned looked like a Ponto Stabil mirror and was mounted in the standard door location.

[Joris Koning]

The Talbot bullets were an option on the early 911/912s

[Brett Johnson]

Talbot bullets on 356s go back to 1960 and were offered (off-topically) through 1968 on 911/912s, though the small mirror size made them illegal in Germany and the US in 1968.

[Brett Meyer]

Fwiw,, These Talbots& co. Berlin mirrors have been on the fenders since early 1960

[Brett Johnson]

Are they listed on the Kardex? If so, what is the invoice date on the Kardex. I assume that it is earlier than January 1960 since it has a front script.

[Brett Meyer]

Hi Brett,
Car definitely came without the talbot mirrors as Dick installed the talbots right after delivery .
Car was Ausgel/ invoiced 7/12/59 ---1st warranty service 1/3/60. d/m/y
Dick ordered the car sometime late fall of '59.
He raced april to aug then car sat until oct of '60 when mom& dad purchased it.

[Brett Johnson]

Talbot bullet mirrors were not factory installed -- though I'm sure that they would install them on factory delivery cars. I was hoping that they were listed on the Kardex, because I don't have a first use date and don't remember my source that had them as a 1960 option. The ones on your car a certainly the same ones used by Porsche.