On headlight lenses....

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: On headlight lenses....

#136 Post by Jan Kolm » Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:47 am

No.

Looks like a '60-'65 asymmetric assembly with a Hella 4475 lens.

Porsche normally sourced their non-sealed beam headlight assemblies from Bosch. The Bosch and Hella buckets from this period are very similar in appearance. Single-rivet, Hella chromed rings from this period have a squared-off tab--not sure about Bosch.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

User avatar
Dan Kalinski
356 Fan
Posts: 721
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:26 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: On headlight lenses....

#137 Post by Dan Kalinski » Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:38 pm

Jan Kolm wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:47 am
No.

Looks like a '60-'65 asymmetric assembly with a Hella 4475 lens.

Porsche normally sourced their non-sealed beam headlight assemblies from Bosch. The Bosch and Hella buckets from this period are very similar in appearance. Single-rivet, Hella chromed rings from this period have a squared-off tab--not sure about Bosch.
Yes. Thank you. Would you (or anyone) have pictures of the correct lenses for the '53?
Attachments
IMG_3508[1].JPG
IMG_3508[1].JPG (1.93 MiB) Viewed 3603 times

Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: On headlight lenses....

#138 Post by Jan Kolm » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:36 pm

P1010044 (2).JPG
P1010044 (2).JPG (301.6 KiB) Viewed 3593 times
Dan Kalinski wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:38 pm
Jan Kolm wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:47 am
No.

Looks like a '60-'65 asymmetric assembly with a Hella 4475 lens.

Porsche normally sourced their non-sealed beam headlight assemblies from Bosch. The Bosch and Hella buckets from this period are very similar in appearance. Single-rivet, Hella chromed rings from this period have a squared-off tab--not sure about Bosch.
Yes. Thank you. Would you (or anyone) have pictures of the correct lenses for the '53?
This is the correct lens for a U.S. market '53 with sealed beams. It has the "vestigial oval" in the center of the lens.

Rainer Cooney (Spyder Factory) had a run of high-quality reproductions recently made and were sold out in advance. Unfortunately, several were broken in shipping, so an additional run is being made--he may have a few "insurance" spares available for purchase, once the pre-ordered lenses are mailed out and received in good shape. Contact him directly through the Registry.

There is some debate about the correct Bosch symmetric lens for a '53. They will have a "script" logo and (most likely) no "A" and "NL" markings. Original Bosch lenses may be date-coded at 12 o'clock with a Roman numeral and letter code for quarter and year.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

User avatar
Dan Kalinski
356 Fan
Posts: 721
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:26 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: On headlight lenses....

#139 Post by Dan Kalinski » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:45 pm

Jan Kolm wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:36 pm
P1010044 (2).JPG
Dan Kalinski wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:38 pm
Jan Kolm wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:47 am
No.

Looks like a '60-'65 asymmetric assembly with a Hella 4475 lens.

Porsche normally sourced their non-sealed beam headlight assemblies from Bosch. The Bosch and Hella buckets from this period are very similar in appearance. Single-rivet, Hella chromed rings from this period have a squared-off tab--not sure about Bosch.
Yes. Thank you. Would you (or anyone) have pictures of the correct lenses for the '53?
This is the correct lens for a U.S. market '53 with sealed beams. It has the "vestigial oval" in the center of the lens.

Rainer Cooney (Spyder Factory) had a run of high-quality reproductions recently made and were sold out in advance. Unfortunately, several were broken in shipping, so an additional run is being made--he may have a few "insurance" spares available for purchase, once the pre-ordered lenses are mailed out and received in good shape. Contact him directly through the Registry.

There is some debate about the correct Bosch symmetric lens for a '53. They will have a "script" logo and (most likely) no "A" and "NL" markings. Original Bosch lenses may be date-coded at 12 o'clock with a Roman numeral and letter code for quarter and year.
Greatly appreciated. Thank you Sir.

Dan K.

Ian Delroy
356 Fan
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:51 pm

Re: On headlight lenses....

#140 Post by Ian Delroy » Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:45 am

Help.....

So I have a 1959 356A RHD Australian delivered. Its Kardex lists Bosch-Lampen 45/40W. It currently has Hella headlights, the buckets don't even match.

I was trying to sources what I understand to be the correct headlights. From my novice research I thought the part number was 644.631.101.00 "Headlight compl. Bosch".

I am looking a some currently for sale. One lens is a Hella which is easy enough to replace. The other lens is a Bosch and the buckets look correct to my untrained eye.

Can anyone provide advice if these are in fact period correct for my car?

Thanks in advance.
Attachments
Pic6.jpg
Pic6.jpg (427.02 KiB) Viewed 3494 times
Pic5.jpg
Pic5.jpg (518.85 KiB) Viewed 3494 times
Pic4.jpg
Pic4.jpg (466.1 KiB) Viewed 3494 times
Pic3.jpg
Pic3.jpg (446.9 KiB) Viewed 3494 times
Pic2.jpg
Pic2.jpg (375.41 KiB) Viewed 3494 times

User avatar
Martin Benade
356 Fan
Posts: 8913
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: On headlight lenses....

#141 Post by Martin Benade » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:24 am

Is the mounting tab at the bottom chromed? If so that may not be correct.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna

Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: On headlight lenses....

#142 Post by Jan Kolm » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:51 am

The buckets and reflectors are correct Bosch and the reflectors are dated Sep 1958 (9P).

It looks like the Hella lens and chrome ring were replaced at some point.

Does the Bosch lens have a date code cast into the lip at 12 o'clock (e.g., IIP or IIIP)?

The Hella lens is correct for a ~1959-60 VW Beetle and possibly later for RHD markets.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

Ian Delroy
356 Fan
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:51 pm

Re: On headlight lenses....

#143 Post by Ian Delroy » Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:56 pm

Thank you both. I have gone back to the seller with an offer. Headlights are certainly not simple!

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: On headlight lenses....

#144 Post by DaveErickson » Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:37 pm

Can anyone help identify this headlight assembly? I am looking for a headlight for a Conv. D. The date code shows it is from mid 1958, but the part number on the bucket is one digit off from others I have seen: 180 E 25-5-SB-2 instead of 180 E 25-4-SB-2. The body of the light also has two tabs, shown circled below, which would be easy to remove for a 356 or VW, but I hate to damage an unusual part without knowing what it is for. Which vehicles besides VW and Porsche used the Hella headlight assemblies?

Interesting to me is that both Hella numbers, 180 E 25-4-SB-2 and 180 E 25-5-SB-2, appear on the lens. Indicating that the same lens fits both bodies. Somewhere in Hella literature there must be an explanation.
Screen Shot 2022-02-28 at 4.24.11 PM.png
Screen Shot 2022-02-28 at 4.24.59 PM.png
Screen Shot 2022-02-28 at 4.24.29 PM.png
Screen Shot 2022-02-28 at 4.24.46 PM.png

Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: On headlight lenses....

#145 Post by Jan Kolm » Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:36 pm

AU = Auto-Union or Audi?
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

User avatar
James Davies
356Talk Moderator
Posts: 2733
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Heidelberg, DE

Re: On headlight lenses....

#146 Post by James Davies » Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:40 am

Dan, no those headlights are from a decade or more later.

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: On headlight lenses....

#147 Post by DaveErickson » Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:35 pm

Jan Kolm wrote:
Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:36 pm
AU = Auto-Union or Audi?
Jan, thanks for the information. I think it is correct, here are some 59 AutoUnion pictures I found on the web, and they clearly use the same headlight assemblies as 356 and VW, although the first one has European headlights with 1:00 7:00 adjusters:
IMG_0270.jpeg
IMG_0271.jpeg
However that leads to another question. The headlight assembly in my 59 Convertible D that I am trying to match is the one on the right in this photo. It has an "n" after the Hella model number. What does the n stand for? The VW assembly next to it has no letter after the model number, but it is labeled VW so no need. If you click on the photo you will see a larger image.
IMG_0066 (1).jpeg

Post Reply