A friend and I are planning to build an engine test stand. Thanks to George Bryan and Joe Leoni, a great wiring diagram is posted on the 356 Registry website at this link:
http://www.356registry.org/Tech/engine_ ... agram.html
We would like to build the test stand for "off the floor" engine mounting and running. It would be helpful if those of you with 356 test stands could post pictures, plans and/or construction tips under this thread topic. If we get enough responses, the thread would be a great starting point for others planning on building test stands.
Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
-
Bill Waite
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:05 pm
- Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
Bill Waite
Grand Rapids, MI
1965 356C Coupe "Reversible Outlaw"
Grand Rapids, MI
1965 356C Coupe "Reversible Outlaw"
-
George Bryan
- Registry Hall of Fame
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:38 pm
- Location: Evans, GA
Bill, this is the stand I built which led to the diagram. Joe Leoni was kind enough to clean up my amateur diagram & make sure all the conncetions were right before I sent it to the archive tech section. You do something like this when you have too much time on your hands.
The stand started life as an old 356 gearbox case, a Harbor Freight 2k lb American V8 engine stand, a Gravely lawnmower gas tank, a 3 gang electrical box found at any hardware store, dash lights from a 32 Ford hotrod - one red (generator) & one green (oil pressure), a marine plastic battery box & cover, on/off switch and push button, and the assorted cables, wires, volt reg, fuel line, starter, oil pressure gauge & such needed to hook it up. I have since added a pull choke from an MG as it pulls out & locks so I can hold a specific throttle speed. It is connected to the bell crank. The yellow light in the old breather hole is to show when the batt is connected - it glows when the batt is hooked up but ign is off; and turns off when the switch is cut on. It is really an idiot light for me so that when done playing with an engine, if I see it glowing, it reminds me to disconnect the batt cable from the terminal.
You can hook up a tach as part of the build, but I use a Matco multi function meter that gives, dwell, rpm & such. The looong battery cables, shrink tube, wire ends, switch, oil pressure gauge,marine battery box,and ealy VW starter & bushing were all obtained in one trip to my local FLAPS (NAPA) store. Call Jim at EASY or Gary at Parts Obsolete for an empty trans case.The local lawn mower store, Harbor Freight, & Ace hardware had everything else. You can use a lawnmower throttle cable for the accelerator instead of the MG one I used.
The Harbor Freight base is a nice start point as it is all 3" box steel, welded, large steel casters, and a removeable oil pan across the bottom legs. You can't buy that much steel and do that much welding for $79, I don't think. I fabricated the side plate uprights to bolt the trans case to the fabricated flat plate on the stand base. This whole assembly then unbolts, and I can attach my 313 engine building stand to the flat base plate for engine work. It all stands about waist high.
Maybe not the best idea, but it works. It is very sturdy, mobile, and waaaay overbuilt for the weight of the 356 engine. The voltage regulator & bell crank set ups allow you to duplicate the electrical & throttle system as if it were in your car. When it comes off the stand the engine plugs into the car, you hook everything up, & you turn the key & go for a ride.... as all carb settings, timing, oil change & valve adjust are all done easy access on the running stand. Having the flywheel completely enclosed is, to me, a little safer so fingers, shirt tails, beards, shop rags, and such do not inadvertantly get pulled into the running engine.
I have also seen a starter on a corner chunk of a VW trans bolted to the case and the engine is sitting on the floor with the fuel line stuck in a coffee can. It worked fine too. I'm sure there are others who will show their ideas also.
Regards,
George Bryan #1175
The stand started life as an old 356 gearbox case, a Harbor Freight 2k lb American V8 engine stand, a Gravely lawnmower gas tank, a 3 gang electrical box found at any hardware store, dash lights from a 32 Ford hotrod - one red (generator) & one green (oil pressure), a marine plastic battery box & cover, on/off switch and push button, and the assorted cables, wires, volt reg, fuel line, starter, oil pressure gauge & such needed to hook it up. I have since added a pull choke from an MG as it pulls out & locks so I can hold a specific throttle speed. It is connected to the bell crank. The yellow light in the old breather hole is to show when the batt is connected - it glows when the batt is hooked up but ign is off; and turns off when the switch is cut on. It is really an idiot light for me so that when done playing with an engine, if I see it glowing, it reminds me to disconnect the batt cable from the terminal.
You can hook up a tach as part of the build, but I use a Matco multi function meter that gives, dwell, rpm & such. The looong battery cables, shrink tube, wire ends, switch, oil pressure gauge,marine battery box,and ealy VW starter & bushing were all obtained in one trip to my local FLAPS (NAPA) store. Call Jim at EASY or Gary at Parts Obsolete for an empty trans case.The local lawn mower store, Harbor Freight, & Ace hardware had everything else. You can use a lawnmower throttle cable for the accelerator instead of the MG one I used.
The Harbor Freight base is a nice start point as it is all 3" box steel, welded, large steel casters, and a removeable oil pan across the bottom legs. You can't buy that much steel and do that much welding for $79, I don't think. I fabricated the side plate uprights to bolt the trans case to the fabricated flat plate on the stand base. This whole assembly then unbolts, and I can attach my 313 engine building stand to the flat base plate for engine work. It all stands about waist high.
Maybe not the best idea, but it works. It is very sturdy, mobile, and waaaay overbuilt for the weight of the 356 engine. The voltage regulator & bell crank set ups allow you to duplicate the electrical & throttle system as if it were in your car. When it comes off the stand the engine plugs into the car, you hook everything up, & you turn the key & go for a ride.... as all carb settings, timing, oil change & valve adjust are all done easy access on the running stand. Having the flywheel completely enclosed is, to me, a little safer so fingers, shirt tails, beards, shop rags, and such do not inadvertantly get pulled into the running engine.
I have also seen a starter on a corner chunk of a VW trans bolted to the case and the engine is sitting on the floor with the fuel line stuck in a coffee can. It worked fine too. I'm sure there are others who will show their ideas also.
Regards,
George Bryan #1175
Last edited by George Bryan on Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:51 pm, edited 10 times in total.
-
Glenn Ring
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:54 pm
- Tag: On theSamba.com
- Location: Long Island, New York
- Contact:
-
Bob Paxton
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:31 pm
Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
Hello
By "off the floor", I understand the test stand can bolt to the floor so
that the engine is "off the floor". This is a nice way to work on these
engines as the "age" factor creeps into play!
First I would start with a bell housing from a mid '70's VW bus. This is
the bell that unbolts from the actual transmission with several bolts. This
will provide a 4 bolt mount for the engine and provide a perfect postion
mount for the starter. Use a starter from a VW automatic bug (self
supporting...no need to worry about the bushings) and cheaper than a 911
starter. Trace the bell housing back side on to a piece of 1/4" plate and
cut out with torch or plasma cutter. Grind and dress up as needed. This is
the starting point for the construction of the stand. I use 3 inch dia.
seamless pipe, 1/4" wall thickness, 12" long and weld it to the 1/4" plate
(approximate center). Now, using 3 1/2 " seamless pipe, 1/4 wall thickness,
make a ring about a 1/2 to 3/4" long. Should fit, but use a lathe to open
up slightly and face off both ends for squareness. Undercut or inside
chamfer one end to fit over the weld off the 3" pipe. Weld the ring to the
1/4" plate. This will provide a bearing spin surface for the yoke of the
test stand. Now using the 3 1/2 pipe cut a piece about 8 inches long. Do
the same tratment as the ring piece. May need to take a skosh off the
inside with a boring bar and a lathe so that it spins freely but is a snug
fit (apply grease for smoothness later). Way out on the end of the 3" pipe
you can drill a 1/2 hold threw the pipe (both walls) and put a 1/2 piece of
round stock to use as a handle to help turn (rotate)the engine. Now you
will be able to tilt motor to adjust valves in a very comfortable position
and then level again to run. Drill position holes threw the 3 1/2 and the
3" pipe to hold motor at angles like the factory 313 engine stand base if
you want! If you weld a large nut to the 3 1/2" sleeve you can use a
matching bolt to pinch the yoke of the stand and hold (lock) it at any angle
you want! Now cut a 3 1/2 piece of pipe that will position the engine at
the height off the floor that you desire. Weld this to the 3 1/2" sleeve
(think "T") intersection. Notch out long pipe to fit snug to the yoke and
then weld for keeps. Put post towards the back of the yoke and place a 45
degree brace under yoke, if you would like, for additional stiffness. All
welds are seen so make them "pretty". Now cut a 14" square out of 1/4
plate. Use torch and a straight edge. Grind and debur as needed. Center
up the post and check for vertical and weld for keeps. Brace the bottom as
you feel it is needed. Drill in advance, nine holes and the perimeter of
the base to lag to the floor. If you want it portable then a system of legs
and casters will be needed like the engine stands in catologs. The weight
of the engine may be a concern as far as the "droop" goes, so any inclines
of a couple of degrees designed into the welding of the pipe would be good
to anticipate the weight of the engine and achieving a level look when the
engine, fully laden, is in the stand A dash board can be built to mount a
universal ignition switch, oil pressure gauge and a regulator so that all
the engine functions can be hooked up and watched during the run in on the
stand. All wiring and oil lines can be put in a neat PVC tubing or shrink
wrapped to make a neat look to the hook up. I also have a 1" angle iron
frame designed to hold the battery on the far side of the engine to help
balance the weight. Support the battery frame with a piece of 1/2 round
stock bent like the tow hook on the 356 and weld from the post the the angle
iron framefrom underneath. If you have a slip roller you can turn a large
ring out of 1 1/2 band iron that will fit around a NAPA 12 quart round tin
oil drain pan and weld it to a stand off unboltable clamp from the post so
that it will sit parallel to the floor under the engine so that you can have
a nice stable way to drain the oil. Make it removeable to get it out of the
way when not changing oil. You can use this stand to disassemble an engine
down to the rods then switch over to a 313 type stand so you can split the
case. Paint as desired. I get a lot of compliments on mine and customers
are amazed that I can and usually always do run up a VW and 356 engine to
sort it out before installing in car or handing over to the owner for his
own installation. Good luck with the engine stand plans. I can take
pictures but don't know how to send them yet!
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Waite" <fordlandia@sbcglobal.net>
To: <356talk@356registry.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: [356Talk] Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
By "off the floor", I understand the test stand can bolt to the floor so
that the engine is "off the floor". This is a nice way to work on these
engines as the "age" factor creeps into play!
First I would start with a bell housing from a mid '70's VW bus. This is
the bell that unbolts from the actual transmission with several bolts. This
will provide a 4 bolt mount for the engine and provide a perfect postion
mount for the starter. Use a starter from a VW automatic bug (self
supporting...no need to worry about the bushings) and cheaper than a 911
starter. Trace the bell housing back side on to a piece of 1/4" plate and
cut out with torch or plasma cutter. Grind and dress up as needed. This is
the starting point for the construction of the stand. I use 3 inch dia.
seamless pipe, 1/4" wall thickness, 12" long and weld it to the 1/4" plate
(approximate center). Now, using 3 1/2 " seamless pipe, 1/4 wall thickness,
make a ring about a 1/2 to 3/4" long. Should fit, but use a lathe to open
up slightly and face off both ends for squareness. Undercut or inside
chamfer one end to fit over the weld off the 3" pipe. Weld the ring to the
1/4" plate. This will provide a bearing spin surface for the yoke of the
test stand. Now using the 3 1/2 pipe cut a piece about 8 inches long. Do
the same tratment as the ring piece. May need to take a skosh off the
inside with a boring bar and a lathe so that it spins freely but is a snug
fit (apply grease for smoothness later). Way out on the end of the 3" pipe
you can drill a 1/2 hold threw the pipe (both walls) and put a 1/2 piece of
round stock to use as a handle to help turn (rotate)the engine. Now you
will be able to tilt motor to adjust valves in a very comfortable position
and then level again to run. Drill position holes threw the 3 1/2 and the
3" pipe to hold motor at angles like the factory 313 engine stand base if
you want! If you weld a large nut to the 3 1/2" sleeve you can use a
matching bolt to pinch the yoke of the stand and hold (lock) it at any angle
you want! Now cut a 3 1/2 piece of pipe that will position the engine at
the height off the floor that you desire. Weld this to the 3 1/2" sleeve
(think "T") intersection. Notch out long pipe to fit snug to the yoke and
then weld for keeps. Put post towards the back of the yoke and place a 45
degree brace under yoke, if you would like, for additional stiffness. All
welds are seen so make them "pretty". Now cut a 14" square out of 1/4
plate. Use torch and a straight edge. Grind and debur as needed. Center
up the post and check for vertical and weld for keeps. Brace the bottom as
you feel it is needed. Drill in advance, nine holes and the perimeter of
the base to lag to the floor. If you want it portable then a system of legs
and casters will be needed like the engine stands in catologs. The weight
of the engine may be a concern as far as the "droop" goes, so any inclines
of a couple of degrees designed into the welding of the pipe would be good
to anticipate the weight of the engine and achieving a level look when the
engine, fully laden, is in the stand A dash board can be built to mount a
universal ignition switch, oil pressure gauge and a regulator so that all
the engine functions can be hooked up and watched during the run in on the
stand. All wiring and oil lines can be put in a neat PVC tubing or shrink
wrapped to make a neat look to the hook up. I also have a 1" angle iron
frame designed to hold the battery on the far side of the engine to help
balance the weight. Support the battery frame with a piece of 1/2 round
stock bent like the tow hook on the 356 and weld from the post the the angle
iron framefrom underneath. If you have a slip roller you can turn a large
ring out of 1 1/2 band iron that will fit around a NAPA 12 quart round tin
oil drain pan and weld it to a stand off unboltable clamp from the post so
that it will sit parallel to the floor under the engine so that you can have
a nice stable way to drain the oil. Make it removeable to get it out of the
way when not changing oil. You can use this stand to disassemble an engine
down to the rods then switch over to a 313 type stand so you can split the
case. Paint as desired. I get a lot of compliments on mine and customers
are amazed that I can and usually always do run up a VW and 356 engine to
sort it out before installing in car or handing over to the owner for his
own installation. Good luck with the engine stand plans. I can take
pictures but don't know how to send them yet!
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Waite" <fordlandia@sbcglobal.net>
To: <356talk@356registry.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: [356Talk] Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.A friend and I are planning to build an engine test stand. Thanks to
George Bryan and Joe Leoni, a great wiring diagram is posted on the 356
Registry website at this link:
http://www.356registry.org/Tech/engine_ ... agram.html
We would like to build the test stand for "off the floor" engine mounting
and running. It would be helpful if those of you with 356 test stands
could post pictures, plans and/or construction tips under this thread
topic. If we get enough responses, the thread would be a great starting
point for others planning on building test stands.
------------------------
Bill Waite
Grand Rapids, MI
'65 356 C Coupe
'73 911E Coupe
-
Glenn Ring
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:54 pm
- Tag: On theSamba.com
- Location: Long Island, New York
- Contact:
-
Bob Paxton
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:31 pm
Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
George
Your engine stand is very "cool"! I love looking at the quality of other
peoples work efforts and saying to myself that that would work in my shop
anytime! My word description looks alot like this if the trans. that George
uses was cut at the fist rib from the end of the bell. I like the use of
the Gravely (Cub Cadet) gas tank. One from a Troybilt tiller would also
work. Our batterys are monted simillar and I built a dash as opposed to
your electrical box ( I like all the switches and warning lights). The only
major difference and it may not be worth the extra work, is that mine can
rotate for valve adjustments. Nice paint work on Gearges stand makes the
overall very clean and attractive! Overall , Georges stand is a bolt
together of a selection of parts (some fabrication of trans. mount) and my
idea (sorry no picture) is a fabrication from assorted materials! Nice job
George!
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bryan" <angelina90@knology.net>
To: <356talk@356registry.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:33 AM
Subject: [356Talk] Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
Your engine stand is very "cool"! I love looking at the quality of other
peoples work efforts and saying to myself that that would work in my shop
anytime! My word description looks alot like this if the trans. that George
uses was cut at the fist rib from the end of the bell. I like the use of
the Gravely (Cub Cadet) gas tank. One from a Troybilt tiller would also
work. Our batterys are monted simillar and I built a dash as opposed to
your electrical box ( I like all the switches and warning lights). The only
major difference and it may not be worth the extra work, is that mine can
rotate for valve adjustments. Nice paint work on Gearges stand makes the
overall very clean and attractive! Overall , Georges stand is a bolt
together of a selection of parts (some fabrication of trans. mount) and my
idea (sorry no picture) is a fabrication from assorted materials! Nice job
George!
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Bryan" <angelina90@knology.net>
To: <356talk@356registry.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:33 AM
Subject: [356Talk] Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.Bill, this is the stand I built which led to the diagram. Joe Leoni was
kind enough to clean up my diagram & make sure all the conncetions were
right before i sent it to the archive tech section.
The stand started life as an old 644 gearbox case, a Harbor Freight 2k lb
American V8 engine stand, a Gravely lawnmower gas tank, a 3 gang
electrical box found at any hardware store, dash lights from a 32 Ford
hotrod (red & green), a marine plastic battery box, and the assorted
cables, wires, volt reg, fuel line, starter, oil pressure gauge & such
needed to hook it up. I have since added a pull choke from an MG as it
pulls out & locks so I can hold a specific throttle speed.
You can hook up a tach as part of the build, but I use a Matco multi
function meter that gives, dwell, rpm & such.
The Harbor Freight base is a nice start point as it is all 3" box steel,
welded, large steel casters, and a removeable oil pan across the bottom
legs. You can't buy that much steel and do that much welding for $79 I
don't think. I fabricated the uprights to bolt the trans case to the
fabricated flat plate on the stand base. This whole assembly then unbolts,
and I can attach my 313 engine building stand to it to assemble an engine.
It all stands about waist high.
Maybe not the best idea, but it works. I'm sure there are others who will
show their ideas also.
Regards,
George Bryan #1175
[Image: http://www.postimage.org/aVDRuSJ.jpg ]
(http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVDRuSJ)
[Image: http://www.postimage.org/gxINOv9.jpg ]
(http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxINOv9)
-
George Bryan
- Registry Hall of Fame
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:38 pm
- Location: Evans, GA
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Eric Nichols
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:42 am
- Location: Newfields, NH
Engine Test Stand Pictures / Plans
Here are a couple photos of another engine test stand, this one for a 912. I wanted a unit that would bolt up to my existing engine stand.
Jim at EASY provided the 901 bell housing and a used starter. I cut it short and welded on a 5/8" 6061 aluminum plate. The plate has studs that mate to my engine stand.
The combo ignition and starter switch is a race-car unit. On the side, I mounted one of Al Zim's Pierburg electric fuel pumps for priming the carbs, and for running an engine with no mechanical pump.
The engine is a non-working mule that I use as a garage decoration and for test-fitting stuff.
One improvement I intend to make is to add a hand throttle for controlling the engine RPM.
It's not as elaborate as some of the other test stands, but I like the compact design, and it makes me smile every time I walk by it.
Jim at EASY provided the 901 bell housing and a used starter. I cut it short and welded on a 5/8" 6061 aluminum plate. The plate has studs that mate to my engine stand.
The combo ignition and starter switch is a race-car unit. On the side, I mounted one of Al Zim's Pierburg electric fuel pumps for priming the carbs, and for running an engine with no mechanical pump.
The engine is a non-working mule that I use as a garage decoration and for test-fitting stuff.
One improvement I intend to make is to add a hand throttle for controlling the engine RPM.
It's not as elaborate as some of the other test stands, but I like the compact design, and it makes me smile every time I walk by it.
Eric Nichols
Newfields, NH
Newfields, NH
-
Marc Graner
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:55 am
Hey Glenn,Glenn Ring wrote:Here's a more minimal version.
your and Jim suggestions worked perfect for me:
1/4 old bug trans, old vw starter, petrol can, fire extinguisher,
3 switches, my wifes car battery, battery-jumper-cable, ...
... and my recently acquired e-bay 616/36 (uncleaned, before
rebuild) on the ground.
Working on my very first engine experience - Marc
see also the Thread:
http://356registry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1332
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyBK0_yAAuU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsY6NG4pc0E
-
Ben Sherman
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:17 pm
Test Stand BOptions Panel
I have always wanted to add a tach to my test stand, but is it possible to change the scale reading of the tach to let's say, 4 cylinder to 2 cylinder and therefore make it much more sensitive to engine rpm changes for tuning purposes? Does anybody have a tach schematic that one could use to modify a tach at the change of a switch setting? I would rather see the rpm shif than invest in hearing aids
Ben
Ben
-
Mike Zois
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:58 pm
- Location: North of SmelLA
Adjustable CHEAP tachs are available at the local auto parts store....flip of a switch....2-4-6-8......no reason to mod one. $30 with wiring....
Mike Zois
57 Tubeframe Speedster
356 Registry# 17974
58 A Coupe, searching for parts
70 914/6 under restoration
73 911 RS Cabriolet
74 914 2.0 (sold)
Reno, NV
57 Tubeframe Speedster
356 Registry# 17974
58 A Coupe, searching for parts
70 914/6 under restoration
73 911 RS Cabriolet
74 914 2.0 (sold)
Reno, NV
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Jean-Luc CRIADO
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:51 pm
- Location: FRANCE
- Contact:
combine harvester !
one of my friend want to use this parts for test his engine, it's the transmission of the "massey ferguson" combine harvester when she was equipped with the VW flat4 industrial engine....
JLC 8)
JLC 8)
Barnfind 69 912 polo red American Racing Equipment wheels, sport seat, sport exhaust, sport steering wheels > no sport engine !
79 SC.....need a lot of attention !
Search 67 KG T14
16188 member
79 SC.....need a lot of attention !
Search 67 KG T14
16188 member
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Jim Breazeale
- Classifieds Monitor
- Posts: 2804
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- Tag: SF Giants Fan
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Photos of a starter that I made to work on the engine stand, also pictured. The starter is a 6 V VW starter mounted to part of a 741 transmission housing. I just use 2 holes so it clears the engine hoop. It works just great and took about 30 minutes to make. The engine stand was made by the late Tony Simeon out of a $40.00 Costco stand welded to a Factory Type engine stand. We usually just bolt the starter and partial bell housing up to a 356 motor and start it on the ground. Using the stand is way too high tech for us most of the time.
Regards
Jim Breazeale
www.easypor.com
www.facebook.com/pages/European-Auto-Salvage-Yard-EASY/120458108029410
www.easypor.com
www.facebook.com/pages/European-Auto-Salvage-Yard-EASY/120458108029410