Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

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Paul Hatfield
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Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#1 Post by Paul Hatfield » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:44 am

I have been asked by a few members if I could replicate the artwork on original generator/fan belts for Pre-A. In case you're not aware, I have already made Continental belt artwork and applied to new belts to "back date" the belt appearance for 356 A. I've also done the Phoenix type belts for both B and C cars. Anyway, I guess moving on to the Pre-A cars make sense, but I'd like some feedback. I believe there were several iterations of the early belts, and I am just trying to replicate ONE of them, not all of them. The belt that I have been given a photo of is shown in the attachment.
Two questions:
1. Is this a correct belt?
2. If you are at all interested in a belt (or two) please contact me privately. I'd like to get an idea of how many to produce. These are all done by hand, so I really don't want to create too many of them. Pricing not determined yet. Prices for the other belts are in the Classifieds Section.

Thanks,
Paul
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Pre-A Belt.jpg
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Paul Hatfield
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Victor Ingram
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#2 Post by Victor Ingram » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:59 pm

Paul
Maybe this will help, if you need to borrow one to help out, PM me or give a call
973-625-5540
Victor
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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#3 Post by Paul Hatfield » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:27 am

Victor-
First, I want to express my sympathy for the recent event. What a tragedy for the families and friends who lost someone.
As for your building and wonderful cars, I can only wish the the very best in recovery, and I am sure this group of PORSCHE enthusiasts will help in any way we can.

On the belt- thank you for reaching out to me. It took me quite a bit of research just to find a correct size smooth (not cogged) belt. Once found, I did get help from a Pre-A owner who did a test fit for me, and all went well.

I have 20 belts coming my direction and I will then begin my magic to remove the modern artwork and apply vintage "correct" artwork to the belt.

I will reach out to you about the belt you show in the photo. I believe these belts were date coded, but I am still trying to figure out the code. I am on the trail though, and will update my Date Code Article once I figure it out!

By the way, I did provide 356 A Continental belt and B PORSCHE PHOENIX belts to Roads Scholars last month :)

Paul
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Manufacturing-Date-Codes-Paul-Hatfield.pdf
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Victor Ingram
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#4 Post by Victor Ingram » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:07 pm

Hello Paul,

I share your sympathy and concerns for all of the families and friends that were affected by the tragedy.
I have had the pleasure of talking with some of the Road Scholar crew and they are a great group of people.

I have no affiliation but I can say we do have a couple of things in common our last name and enthusiasm for Porsches.

Thanks Paul for the kinds words.

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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#5 Post by Paul Hatfield » Tue May 07, 2019 4:03 pm

Victor-
Thanks for the phone call today and sending along the belt as shown above.
To all-
I now have 20+ new belts here that are the correct size and smooth - not cogged! Hurray for that accomplishment!! I am in the process of removing the original manufacturers artwork.
Once the belt from Victor arrives, we'll start the auto-cad file and then manufacture.
To state it clearly, I am going to make some that are as Victor pictured, not like the first photo of the Continental belt that I showed. I'm making this changed based on the belief that that is the correct belt.
Paul Hatfield
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george kehler
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#6 Post by george kehler » Tue May 07, 2019 8:43 pm

Thanks for doing all these painstaking details on these belts, Paul !!
George Kehler II

1955 Coupe
1971 911 S
1997 993 Targa

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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#7 Post by Paul Hatfield » Wed May 08, 2019 10:28 am

Ok, I surrender!!! I received some push-back on making only the belt with the PORSCHE name on it- the one Victor shows above. Received comments that in the early days of the company, things were a bit crude and money tight. Production was low. Argument is that they would not pay the extra money to have a belt made with the name PORSCHE on it- at least not in the early cars.
So, the Continental belt I originally showed on the Registry post is likely a correct belt- using the argument above.
However, the belt that Victor Ingram showed is also a correct Pre-A belt- probably introduced during Pre-A production but no date is known. It is also a fun belt, with the “bling” of having the PORSCHE name on it.

So what to do???

Hope you guys are generous and spread the word. I will make them BOTH. Photos attached and you can choose which one(s) you want.

Contact me off line for any ordering questions.
Paul Hatfield
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Spencer Harris
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#8 Post by Spencer Harris » Wed May 08, 2019 12:49 pm

Paul Hatfield wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:28 am
Received comments that in the early days of the company, things were a bit crude and money tight. Production was low. Argument is that they would not pay the extra money to have a belt made with the name PORSCHE on it- at least not in the early cars. So, the Continental belt I originally showed on the Registry post is likely a correct belt- using the argument above.
Agreed for the reasons given. Original, factory installed belts were likely off the shelf Continental branded only. Many original parts on my '53 and '55 cars are stamped with the VW logo suggesting that establishing brand recognition was not high on the priority list. Victor's belt is a handsome piece, but likely only installed and supplied to dealers and parts suppliers in later years as production volumes increased.
Spencer Harris
San Joaquin Valley, CA.

jim wayman
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#9 Post by jim wayman » Wed May 08, 2019 8:44 pm

Paul

I will take 2 when you have them sorted out. 760 451 6234

Jim Wayman
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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#10 Post by Paul Hatfield » Thu May 09, 2019 3:56 pm

Thanks Jim. Please send me your email address so I have it on file for when they are completed.
Also,,, just for kicks, we just completed artwork for a small number of early 911 belts yesterday.
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Victor Ingram
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#11 Post by Victor Ingram » Thu May 09, 2019 7:19 pm

Comparison, belt on the right may be an earlier belt?
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Joris Koning
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#12 Post by Joris Koning » Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm

I think I have a picture somewhere taken in '56 on the factory floor showing the Continental belt with the Porsche logo. Have also see it in quite some very original tool kits
'56 Coupe
'57 Coupe
'59 Cab 
'60 Coupe

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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#13 Post by Paul Hatfield » Fri May 10, 2019 3:30 pm

I have been in contact with some pretty well informed guys on these belts, and the conclusion is that there is no single belt that was used throughout the entire Pre-A time period. The early cars were very likely Continental belts without the name PORSCHE. Later there were also Continental belts that used different coloring. Then at some time, the name PORSCHE also appeared on the belt. When did this happen? No one seems to have an answer, but it DID happen.

I will make both types. Buyers can select either from me at the same price.

I would like to thank Don Zingg for all his help on this!!!! He has helped with both the belt selection and with a test fit of a belt to his car.

Good news is, you guys will be way better off than with the cogged belts and modern lettering. Those just don't belong on these wonderful cars.

Again, please contact me off-line for ordering, not by posting here.
Paul Hatfield
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James Davies
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#14 Post by James Davies » Tue May 14, 2019 5:20 pm

Btw, there's no such thing as a "pre-A belt". The 2-piece case engines use a different belt than the 3-piece case engines, and both were used in the pre-A period. I also doubt there's any difference between belts used on 546/2 engines and those on 616/1 engines, especially since both were used on pre-A cars.

I assume you're making this belt for the 3-piece case engines?

The 2-piece case engines (1950 to 1954) use different upper and lower pulleys, and thus also use a belt with a different geometry. The standard belt used by Porsche on these engines was also a Continental brand.

I just want to make this clear so that people with 2-piece case engines are not disappointed when they get a belt that doesn't fit. Of course a lot of rebuilt 2-piece case engines use wrong upper pulleys (yes the Porsche ones were larger diameter than the VW 25hp ones), so if that's the case, then one needs a different belt still.

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Victor Ingram
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Re: Pre-A Generator/Fan Belts

#15 Post by Victor Ingram » Tue May 14, 2019 6:54 pm

James you have some good points....can you offer what size the belts should be?

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