UK Outlaw

For those who couldn't care less how their 356 left the factory!
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Matthew Devereux
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Re: UK Outlaw

#16 Post by Matthew Devereux » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:50 pm

Nothing wrong with an outlaw but you're adding over 200 lb and only maybe 25 hp over a hot SC/912 engine if that 2.4 is stock. In addition you need a major re-engineering of the rear suspension. Its a slippery slope as they say.
Matthew Devereux
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Chris Nielsen
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Re: UK Outlaw

#17 Post by Chris Nielsen » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:01 pm

I am doing a similar build. Not necessarily by choice though. I recently purchased an A coupe that already had a 911 drivetrain installed. The car needs a lot of work to make things right, but it would even be more work to make them "correct". So, I am keeping the current platform but just doing it better and building another 911 drivetrain that more closely matches the character of the car.

I would be very curious to see the photos you took and I could share some of my car.

To help correct the weight balance, I am extending the wheel base slightly and shortening a 901 transmission. The end result is a drivetrain that sits 3" forward of the rear axle when compared to a LWB 911! I am also building the drivetrain as light as possible. On that note, I would highly recommend that you swap your 915 for a 901. My car had a 915 in it when I bought it and I feel like it was a terrible match for the driving character of the car.

With an all magnesium drivetrain, short gears, LSD etc, we are shooting for around 230hp so it is a substantial gain over any 4 cylinder...although that is not my incentive. Whats done is done to this car and its been done for such a long period of time that it is more a part of this car's history than with a 4 cyl.

Looking forward to seeing your progress

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Graham Kerr
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Re: UK Outlaw

#18 Post by Graham Kerr » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:01 am

Got the sawsall out and have the 915 'box and 2.4 motor nicely positioned. Just got to weld it where it touches and we're good to go! The fun starts here.
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Chris Nielsen
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Re: UK Outlaw

#19 Post by Chris Nielsen » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:05 am

what are you doing for axles? And what about changing a fan belt or checking your timing? If you switch to a 901, you can move the whole drivetrain forward at least 2", probably a lot more!

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Mike Wilson
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Re: UK Outlaw

#20 Post by Mike Wilson » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:37 pm

Any concerns with over heating with the fan so close to the body work? Maybe louvers below the deck lid?
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Harlan Halsey
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Re: UK Outlaw

#21 Post by Harlan Halsey » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:18 am

I don't see any mention of the 200lb of lead bricks needed to hold the front down. However, I have a suggestion: Why not put batteries and an electric FWD up there. I bet it would really scoot then.
I think some of the SWB 912 guys have put in Polo engines in with the '72 forward oil tank location. Around 200 hp I guess and handles better than a 911.

Martin Benade
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Re: UK Outlaw

#22 Post by Martin Benade » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:09 am

Using the 901 trans sounds like an excellent improvement for weight and space reasons.

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Graham Kerr
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Re: UK Outlaw

#23 Post by Graham Kerr » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:11 am

Not too much work has happened especially with Christmas taking it's toll on available time. It's been a case of trying and fitting and in and out with the motor and trans, trimming bodywork as necessary plus collecting required parts. However it does look like I can use the existing torsion bar housing and torsion bars by adapting the torsion plate to fit onto the early s/w/b/ 911 trailing arms so this obviates additional chassis work to make mounts for coil-overs. Support for the rear of the engine will come from tubing which matches the existing roll cage metal down form the cage about window height and horizontally back to the rear of the engine. It's a bit hard, for me, to describe but it will triangulate the rear mounts and be rigid. I have just got some nice rebuilt rear callipers which were a bit rare as the early trailing arms only have solid rear discs and not the vented type. This is in the plan because I didn't want to 'over-brake' the rear of the car. One minor problem with running these early trailing arms is that the inner bearings for them are rather expensive at 250 bucks a pop but it's just a drop in the overall 'ocean' and my ocean is certainly getting deeper by the minute. KTOF brothers!
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Graham Kerr
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Re: UK Outlaw

#24 Post by Graham Kerr » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:48 pm

It's zero degrees here but we're getting down to it. Sliced a good portion of the rear seat squab area in order to get the 915 trans positioned up so that all the shift levers and rods line up dead nuts. Due to some re-sizing of the torsion plates ie shortening them it looks like it's going to be able to retain the torsion bar crossmember in it's stock position which is a real bonus because of a few good things. Firstly we don't have to undertake re-positioning and re-welding the crossmember the estimated 3" forward in the car, the shortening of the torsion plates will effectively stiffen the rear suspension to give a boost to support the extra 200 or so lbs hanging out the rear of the car. In this regard I also have located a pair of 7" Fuchs to give me a slightly bigger foot print. The final benefit of this is not having to fabricate additional bracketry to position the now unneeded coil-overs. I'm getting parts for the conversion from all over the place, the last was a gearbox crossmember I located in France which was duly purchased and is now to hand. Lots more to do though but it's getting interesting.
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Erik Thomas
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Re: UK Outlaw

#25 Post by Erik Thomas » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:15 pm

I like the idea of turning it around to mid engine. Weld in a good tube frame, and a new cross member at the door jamb. A cover at window height could insulate and seal off the 911 engine, and be removable for service out though an open door. There was a guy on the internet a few years back who was attempting to fit an Audi V-8 in that location.

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Graham Kerr
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Re: UK Outlaw

#26 Post by Graham Kerr » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:14 am

OK Eric, I'll just weld in a good tube frame, should be done by lunchtime, get the tea on. At one of our Porsche Club GB open days at their HQ in the beautiful Costswolds, they had a stripped down Boxster, just the engine, gearbox and running gear all held together by a minimal framework. I thought, wow, perfect for my project and of course Boxster engine and gearboxes are plentiful and cheap as chips, but when you weigh it all up it presents multiple problems. It's water cooled so you need radiators preferably concealed, if the engine is a varioram there would be a nightmare rewiring job to undertake with all the sensors etc. And the fabrication of frame and crossmembers would be gargantuan. You would be building a new car. Finally it wouldn't be right, a mix of wrong eras, you might as well stick a Subaru lump in.
I would like to think that what I am doing is not TOO radical, nearly same eras, air cooled (what else!) carburettors, maybe an enterprising Heinz or Fritz in Deutschland did the same conversion or at least had the same thought train back in the sixties. However, a tube frame under a 356 coupe body with a blown and injected Hemi sticking out the hood would make an awesome altered. Hmm got me thinking!!
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Graham Kerr
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Re: UK Outlaw

#27 Post by Graham Kerr » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:36 pm

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A few steps further forward, and after considerable measuring and trial fitting, the two trailing arm mounts are now cut and in situ on the torsion bar tube just waiting a final trim before welding. The stock 915 transmount will bolt directly up onto the base of these brackets but we're going to clearance the centre part of the torsion bar tube because the front gearbox housing is very close and could strike the tube when I bang some of my tough power shifts, perhaps. Where the trans coupling is situated we are going to fabricate an access plate because when all is bolted up there will be very little space for the motor to come back so should any work be needed on the trans or even if a clutch needs replacing I will be able to un hook and drop the trans down without disturbing the motor too much. Next up will be sorting out some, and I think the steel stock holders call it CDS which is cold drawn seamless which is one down from chrome moly tubing and this is to go out to the rear motor mounts from the existing roll cage. We'll run two tubes one at floor level and the other at rear window level through the firewall triangulating them to the rear 911 motor plate. I bought some fuchs for the car the other day, 9's and 7's, I only wanted the 7's for the rear but it looks like I will have to keep the existing 6's because there is no way I am altering the rear wheel arches or body dimensions from stock. I can only find this out when all the hubs, bearings and brakes are bolted back on. One other item now in my furtive possession is a set of ram pipes for the Zeniths so I won't have to chop out the internal part of my engine lid. Nice working now without six layers on and icicles hanging off yer schnoz.

PS See y'all at the Lit Meet!!
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Graham Kerr
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Re: UK Outlaw

#28 Post by Graham Kerr » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:34 pm

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loads of room
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What happened to the weather in LA? Packed my bag, shorts, t shirts, didn't even pack a sweater, only had a Levi jacket, and it was 61 degrees. Whoa! I've been to the AMBR show up at Pomona on a few occasions in late January, early Feb and it's hit 75. Anyway, had a great time, apart from when we parked on Sunset Blvd to buy some jazz CD's in Amoeba records and got the renter towed. A'%%e holes. These people are the lowest of the low, but you gotta laugh if only at yourself for making such a stupid move. At least we got a first class upgrade for our flight back to blighty, thank you Virgin. And to car business after seeing all those gorgeous 356 and assorted Porsche, I had a few jobs I wanted to do on my 911 SSE, one of which was to fit a stereo into the car. Her indoors was moaning about having no sounds in the car. Hey, listen to the engine, far better. So I bought a hunnerd dollar Sony CD which I thought would be good enough through six speakers. But you don't realise how good the Bose setup is that is installed in the Cayenne, chalk and cheese, but you can't hear much over 70 anyway, that's mph not the age, thank you. The other thing the 911 got was a factory short shift kit installed with new bushes and OMG is it good, different car, it's racer good so I shall have to cool it away from the stop lights before I do a mischief to the trans.
OK, 356 and we got the rear hubs built up and trial fitted the rear wheels and all is very good. Loads of space to the inner wing and the wheel is bang on dead central in the wheel arch. So I think I shall be able to run 7's on the rear maybe with a 225 tyre. We had a swap meet in the UK on the Sunday when I got back and joy of joys found the bit of a 911 I wanted for the rear engine mounts. It's the very back-most section and will be welded into the 356 to support the back of the engine. With this piece we should be able to complete all the necessary chassis fabrication. There is a big meeting at Goodwood of pre '73 cars, the KG vehicles, this is in August and that is the date which I am aiming for to get the car back on the road. So the sign up on the garage wall spells out AUG 19 in big letters as a constant reminder.
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Right in the middle
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These 7's should squeeze in the back
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Rusty but it'll work
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86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
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75 Honda ST70
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74 Dax Cobra
13 Cayenne (red one!)
62 356B T6

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Graham Kerr
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Re: UK Outlaw

#29 Post by Graham Kerr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:38 pm

Hi guys, we chopped up the 911 rear crossmember for the motor mounts and fabricated the rear chassis sections to take the weight of the 2.4 engine which dropped 10 mil after being installed, big oops, so we shall have to compensate for that. Also there is a rearmost chassis section tying in the rear motor mounts and with the bars extending down from the existing rollcage plus additional tubing running from the front of the rollcage to the front suspension to obviate any possible chassis twist and that little lot should make the car a very rigid and sturdy base for not only the donor 2.4 motor but for anything larger that might just fall in my way. Thinks 3.2, 3.6, steady tiger. One item on the build which I have yet to finalise is the positioning of the oil tank. There might be insufficient space to mount this in the normal 911 right inner wing location, so it may well find it's way up to the front which in actual fact would not be too bad a situation as it would compensate some of the rear weight imbalance. I'll just run a bunch of braided hose to the engine and splice in a motorsport type oil cooler and thermostat. The last thing I bought was a complete set of stock handbrake pieces to go into the inner rear hub and this should hook up to the VW handbrake cables I'm using as my handbrake is a floor mount early 911 piece. And this week I found an interior trimmer who can provide carbon fibre leatherlook cloth which would match my carbon fibre door panels and dashboard. I've got his number for a complete re-trim when the car is back on the road.
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86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
48 Harley WL45
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
13 Cayenne (red one!)
62 356B T6

Martin Benade
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Re: UK Outlaw

#30 Post by Martin Benade » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:36 pm

I hope it will be a sweet car to drive, not just a powerful monster. Regardless, you are doing a super job with it

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