UK Outlaw
- Matthew Devereux
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:36 am
- Location: Alberta
Re: UK Outlaw
Nothing wrong with an outlaw but you're adding over 200 lb and only maybe 25 hp over a hot SC/912 engine if that 2.4 is stock. In addition you need a major re-engineering of the rear suspension. Its a slippery slope as they say.
Matthew Devereux
'00 Boxster S
'58 356A coupe
'00 Boxster S
'58 356A coupe
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- 356 Fan
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:46 am
Re: UK Outlaw
I am doing a similar build. Not necessarily by choice though. I recently purchased an A coupe that already had a 911 drivetrain installed. The car needs a lot of work to make things right, but it would even be more work to make them "correct". So, I am keeping the current platform but just doing it better and building another 911 drivetrain that more closely matches the character of the car.
I would be very curious to see the photos you took and I could share some of my car.
To help correct the weight balance, I am extending the wheel base slightly and shortening a 901 transmission. The end result is a drivetrain that sits 3" forward of the rear axle when compared to a LWB 911! I am also building the drivetrain as light as possible. On that note, I would highly recommend that you swap your 915 for a 901. My car had a 915 in it when I bought it and I feel like it was a terrible match for the driving character of the car.
With an all magnesium drivetrain, short gears, LSD etc, we are shooting for around 230hp so it is a substantial gain over any 4 cylinder...although that is not my incentive. Whats done is done to this car and its been done for such a long period of time that it is more a part of this car's history than with a 4 cyl.
Looking forward to seeing your progress
I would be very curious to see the photos you took and I could share some of my car.
To help correct the weight balance, I am extending the wheel base slightly and shortening a 901 transmission. The end result is a drivetrain that sits 3" forward of the rear axle when compared to a LWB 911! I am also building the drivetrain as light as possible. On that note, I would highly recommend that you swap your 915 for a 901. My car had a 915 in it when I bought it and I feel like it was a terrible match for the driving character of the car.
With an all magnesium drivetrain, short gears, LSD etc, we are shooting for around 230hp so it is a substantial gain over any 4 cylinder...although that is not my incentive. Whats done is done to this car and its been done for such a long period of time that it is more a part of this car's history than with a 4 cyl.
Looking forward to seeing your progress
- Graham Kerr
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: West Sussex, England
Re: UK Outlaw
Got the sawsall out and have the 915 'box and 2.4 motor nicely positioned. Just got to weld it where it touches and we're good to go! The fun starts here.
86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
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- 356 Fan
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:46 am
Re: UK Outlaw
what are you doing for axles? And what about changing a fan belt or checking your timing? If you switch to a 901, you can move the whole drivetrain forward at least 2", probably a lot more!
- Mike Wilson
- Classifieds Monitor
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
- Location: SW Los Angeles
Re: UK Outlaw
Any concerns with over heating with the fan so close to the body work? Maybe louvers below the deck lid?
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
- Harlan Halsey
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 2377
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:05 pm
- Location: No Cal SF Peninsula
Re: UK Outlaw
I don't see any mention of the 200lb of lead bricks needed to hold the front down. However, I have a suggestion: Why not put batteries and an electric FWD up there. I bet it would really scoot then.
I think some of the SWB 912 guys have put in Polo engines in with the '72 forward oil tank location. Around 200 hp I guess and handles better than a 911.
I think some of the SWB 912 guys have put in Polo engines in with the '72 forward oil tank location. Around 200 hp I guess and handles better than a 911.
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 12392
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: UK Outlaw
Using the 901 trans sounds like an excellent improvement for weight and space reasons.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
- Graham Kerr
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: West Sussex, England
Re: UK Outlaw
Not too much work has happened especially with Christmas taking it's toll on available time. It's been a case of trying and fitting and in and out with the motor and trans, trimming bodywork as necessary plus collecting required parts. However it does look like I can use the existing torsion bar housing and torsion bars by adapting the torsion plate to fit onto the early s/w/b/ 911 trailing arms so this obviates additional chassis work to make mounts for coil-overs. Support for the rear of the engine will come from tubing which matches the existing roll cage metal down form the cage about window height and horizontally back to the rear of the engine. It's a bit hard, for me, to describe but it will triangulate the rear mounts and be rigid. I have just got some nice rebuilt rear callipers which were a bit rare as the early trailing arms only have solid rear discs and not the vented type. This is in the plan because I didn't want to 'over-brake' the rear of the car. One minor problem with running these early trailing arms is that the inner bearings for them are rather expensive at 250 bucks a pop but it's just a drop in the overall 'ocean' and my ocean is certainly getting deeper by the minute. KTOF brothers!
86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
- Graham Kerr
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: West Sussex, England
Re: UK Outlaw
It's zero degrees here but we're getting down to it. Sliced a good portion of the rear seat squab area in order to get the 915 trans positioned up so that all the shift levers and rods line up dead nuts. Due to some re-sizing of the torsion plates ie shortening them it looks like it's going to be able to retain the torsion bar crossmember in it's stock position which is a real bonus because of a few good things. Firstly we don't have to undertake re-positioning and re-welding the crossmember the estimated 3" forward in the car, the shortening of the torsion plates will effectively stiffen the rear suspension to give a boost to support the extra 200 or so lbs hanging out the rear of the car. In this regard I also have located a pair of 7" Fuchs to give me a slightly bigger foot print. The final benefit of this is not having to fabricate additional bracketry to position the now unneeded coil-overs. I'm getting parts for the conversion from all over the place, the last was a gearbox crossmember I located in France which was duly purchased and is now to hand. Lots more to do though but it's getting interesting.
86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
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- 356 Fan
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:55 pm
- Location: Rhode Island
Re: UK Outlaw
I like the idea of turning it around to mid engine. Weld in a good tube frame, and a new cross member at the door jamb. A cover at window height could insulate and seal off the 911 engine, and be removable for service out though an open door. There was a guy on the internet a few years back who was attempting to fit an Audi V-8 in that location.
- Graham Kerr
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: West Sussex, England
Re: UK Outlaw
OK Eric, I'll just weld in a good tube frame, should be done by lunchtime, get the tea on. At one of our Porsche Club GB open days at their HQ in the beautiful Costswolds, they had a stripped down Boxster, just the engine, gearbox and running gear all held together by a minimal framework. I thought, wow, perfect for my project and of course Boxster engine and gearboxes are plentiful and cheap as chips, but when you weigh it all up it presents multiple problems. It's water cooled so you need radiators preferably concealed, if the engine is a varioram there would be a nightmare rewiring job to undertake with all the sensors etc. And the fabrication of frame and crossmembers would be gargantuan. You would be building a new car. Finally it wouldn't be right, a mix of wrong eras, you might as well stick a Subaru lump in.
I would like to think that what I am doing is not TOO radical, nearly same eras, air cooled (what else!) carburettors, maybe an enterprising Heinz or Fritz in Deutschland did the same conversion or at least had the same thought train back in the sixties. However, a tube frame under a 356 coupe body with a blown and injected Hemi sticking out the hood would make an awesome altered. Hmm got me thinking!!
I would like to think that what I am doing is not TOO radical, nearly same eras, air cooled (what else!) carburettors, maybe an enterprising Heinz or Fritz in Deutschland did the same conversion or at least had the same thought train back in the sixties. However, a tube frame under a 356 coupe body with a blown and injected Hemi sticking out the hood would make an awesome altered. Hmm got me thinking!!
86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
- Graham Kerr
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: West Sussex, England
Re: UK Outlaw
PS See y'all at the Lit Meet!!
86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
- Graham Kerr
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: West Sussex, England
Re: UK Outlaw
OK, 356 and we got the rear hubs built up and trial fitted the rear wheels and all is very good. Loads of space to the inner wing and the wheel is bang on dead central in the wheel arch. So I think I shall be able to run 7's on the rear maybe with a 225 tyre. We had a swap meet in the UK on the Sunday when I got back and joy of joys found the bit of a 911 I wanted for the rear engine mounts. It's the very back-most section and will be welded into the 356 to support the back of the engine. With this piece we should be able to complete all the necessary chassis fabrication. There is a big meeting at Goodwood of pre '73 cars, the KG vehicles, this is in August and that is the date which I am aiming for to get the car back on the road. So the sign up on the garage wall spells out AUG 19 in big letters as a constant reminder.
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- Rusty but it'll work
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86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
- Graham Kerr
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:21 am
- Location: West Sussex, England
Re: UK Outlaw
Hi guys, we chopped up the 911 rear crossmember for the motor mounts and fabricated the rear chassis sections to take the weight of the 2.4 engine which dropped 10 mil after being installed, big oops, so we shall have to compensate for that. Also there is a rearmost chassis section tying in the rear motor mounts and with the bars extending down from the existing rollcage plus additional tubing running from the front of the rollcage to the front suspension to obviate any possible chassis twist and that little lot should make the car a very rigid and sturdy base for not only the donor 2.4 motor but for anything larger that might just fall in my way. Thinks 3.2, 3.6, steady tiger. One item on the build which I have yet to finalise is the positioning of the oil tank. There might be insufficient space to mount this in the normal 911 right inner wing location, so it may well find it's way up to the front which in actual fact would not be too bad a situation as it would compensate some of the rear weight imbalance. I'll just run a bunch of braided hose to the engine and splice in a motorsport type oil cooler and thermostat. The last thing I bought was a complete set of stock handbrake pieces to go into the inner rear hub and this should hook up to the VW handbrake cables I'm using as my handbrake is a floor mount early 911 piece. And this week I found an interior trimmer who can provide carbon fibre leatherlook cloth which would match my carbon fibre door panels and dashboard. I've got his number for a complete re-trim when the car is back on the road.
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86 SSE Turbo Look 3.2 Carrera
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
Cole Foster Chop
75 Honda ST70
94 Buell ST2
74 Dax Cobra
18 Macan Turbo
62 356B T6 (modified)
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 12392
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: UK Outlaw
I hope it will be a sweet car to drive, not just a powerful monster. Regardless, you are doing a super job with it
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna