Can ignition and door keys match if they have different nos

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David Austin
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Can ignition and door keys match if they have different nos

#1 Post by David Austin » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:42 pm

I have a 1958 T2 356A Cabriolet.
I am trying to work out if the ignition key should work the doors as well.
My ignition key no is F083 and according to Reutter my door key is K100.

I am told that around this period the same key operated both but the numbers above suggest that this is not the case.

David

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#2 Post by Mike Wilson » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:26 pm

David: the Kardex for my '63 Karmann coupe also shows a different number code for the ignition but the ignition key matches the door locks (K3xx). If you have the need or desire to remove your ignition switch, see if there are numbers etched onto it. They should match the door lock number.

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#3 Post by Doug McDonnell » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 pm

Not positive but I think if your car has square end of handles then different key. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=47038
1965 356C There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Bill Tate
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#4 Post by Bill Tate » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:39 pm

I think the lock experts will tell us that the early T2s still used the Fo key lock in the ignition switch. This changed later to the "T2" ignition switch that used the K100 key blank the same as used for the doors. When that ignition switch change was made it was possible to use the same key for both doors and ignition. Hopefully someone with greater knowledge than I will confirm what I think happened. Porsche was going to use up those Fo series ignition switches until they were gone. They may have just used them in all models until they were gone.
KTF
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David Austin
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#5 Post by David Austin » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:50 pm

Thank you for responses so far.
However I still find it very confusing that an ignition key can have a number F083 and a door handle can have a completely different number K100 but have the same key.

This does not seem logical.
Is it possible that those reporting have the same key operating both the ignition and the door have had them changed at some time?
Looking forward to your responses.
David

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Bill Tate
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#6 Post by Bill Tate » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:41 pm

David, You must have an early T2 since your ignition switch is using the Fo lock mechanism. Since the Fo and K100 series use different key blanks they can never use the same key. In later T2s they changed to an ignition switch that uses the K100 series lock mechanism. Since this K100 series lock is also used in the door locks it was then possible to key both the ignition and the doors for the same key. I also have an early T2 with the Fo key. .Only by changing to the later K100 series ignition switch would it then be possible to get the doors and ignition keyed the same. Since your ignition switch has already been replaced with a K100 series switch you should be able to get all three locks keyed the same. KTF
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Rick Albro
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#7 Post by Rick Albro » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:12 pm

See the attached image. The top key profile is for the pre A square door handle lock cylinder. K100 is for the for the next series of door handles as is the K300 series. Note the subtle changes in the profile of the keys. The M63B blank fits the F083 ignition cylinder that you mentioned. Note the profiles are different. The ignition key profile is rotated by 90 degrees. Bill is right the change from using FO ignition switches to matching K series switches occurred sometimes between December of 57 and April of 58. Cars before December of 57 had FO ignition switch keys and K series door lock keys and those cars after April of 58 had K series locks for both ignition and door cylinders. Your car may close the gap of known cars what is your build date or chassis number? That being said ignition locks normally have 5 pin locks and door cylinders normally have 4 pin locks to make the key work in both one must rely on the key stop. A 5 pin key blank is longer than a 4 pin key blank.
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#8 Post by David Austin » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:29 am

Bill and Rik,
Thank you both for taking the time to respond.
The chassis number of my car is 150222 and the body was delivered to Porsche by Reutter on 30th January 1958.
Bill,
You mention that my ignition has been changed to a K100 series mechanism. The ignition is a Kostal 8275. Am I right in assuming this type of ignition can be change from a F083 to K195 key mechanism and could be the original ignition ?
David

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Bill Tate
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#9 Post by Bill Tate » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:00 pm

David, From this discussion and your thread on "What is the correct ignition...." you have said the KARDEX gives a key number of F083. You state the current key is a K195. We have discussed how Porsche used two different ignition switches during the '58 model year. Based on your date of production and your KARDEX your Cab should have the early F series ignition switch. Since you stated it now has an K195 key it must have an S100 series ignition switch. The F series switch may have failed in the past and was replaced with the later, but still correct, S100 series. The S100 series lock remains correct for a '58 T2 but it is not original based on both your date of production and your KARDEX. This is an interesting question for a concours Judge. If everything else is perfect on your Cab you may want to know if you could lose a fraction of a point because you do not have an F series ignition switch. I would think this may be near the last aspect of concern in the search for a 100 point concours car. To return to your original question, you should be able to get one of our vendor locksmiths to rekey you ignition to operate with a key that will also open you doors. KTF
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#10 Post by David Austin » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:29 pm

Bill,
Thank you for your detailed response.
I have not seen reference to an S100 ignition switch.
I thought I had narrowed down to two possible ignition switches:
The Bosch SH/ZAS 1/5 which I thought was for earlier cars than mine
OR the Kostal 8275 which I thought was the correct one for my car.
How do I identify an S100 ignition switch ?

All help very much appreciated.

David

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Bill Tate
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#11 Post by Bill Tate » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:00 pm

David , From the comments on the current three threads addressing aspects of ignition and door keys, I see that the switch part number for your current S100 series key lock, with number K195 is 8275. The ignition switch part number for '57s and early '58 T2s is SH/ZAS 1/5 and it uses the F series key. Based on your KARDEX the SH/ZAS 1/5 switch using key number F083 was the original switch in your Cab. Regret I was not clear between key blanks, Switch part number and specific key numbers as listed on one's KARDEX..My error I should have been saying K100 series lock. There is no S series lock .Sorry for the confusion. KTF.
Bill Tate
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Re: Can ignition and door keys match if they have different

#12 Post by David Austin » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:44 pm

Thank you to everyone helping me to unravel this conundrum.
Very much appreciated.
David

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