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 Post subject: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:34 am 
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I've never had the 'pleasure' of landing an engine-out P51 in a grain field, but there have been times in my life when the crush of activity meant certain actions were ignored or done poorly.
This guy had to put one on the ground away from the runway and discusses the entire process in a lucid and logical manner. In doing so, he introduces the concept of 'task saturation'; an agent is required to accomplish X tasks in (barely, or less than) X time. He claims hearing is the first input shutdown, and cites work done by BA to support the claim.
And he then critiques his entire performance. For any GA fliers, one of the most important lessons is to shut down the magnetos; you *don't* want a fire on top of all the other problems. And he also makes clear that, in any similar circumstance, the plane has let you down; use the plane's capabilities to save your life, don't use your life to save the plane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBpqvPujZgM

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:22 pm 
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Interesting video. I was thinking as I was watching it about the parallel between having a problem with a plane vs. a 356. I'll bet a lot of us have experienced problems while driving our cars but ignored the sounds, the feel of the car, etc. and then something went wrong. I remember one event where I was chatting with one guy and he said his brakes were pulling but he had learned to compensate. On the drive and on an uphill right hand turn, the brakes threw him off the road to the left and down a hill only being stopped from rolling down the hill by a large tree. A pristine, unrestored A coupe now damaged and he was pretty shaken up.

Lessons to be learned...

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:18 am 
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Mike, we all deal with obsolete tech, but pulling brakes are beyond my tolerance. That's asking for it, and the pilot's comment regarding 'don't ignore it; it IS happening' is appropriate here.
That guy gets scant sympathy from me.

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Location: Alpine AZ, Green Valley AZ
These cars talk to you all the time. It pays to listen to them.

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Some days it just isn’t worth the hassle of chewing through the restraints......


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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:36 pm 
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As a military helicopter pilot, I had 13 in-flight emergencies (the worst of which was a swashplate failure) so they have talked to me a lot! I never got to the point of not hearing during an emergency, but in that one I remember being asked when I told the tower what was happening "do you want to declare an emergency?" I stupidly said not yet, let me just try and get this thing under control. I talked to the tower the entire time, describing the symptoms and my actions to get the airplane back on the ground. I'm sure he cleared all traffic but I never heard him talking to anyone else, and eventually I came in for a running landing. I shut the engine down and the crushed bearings came bubbling out of the swashplate from the heat. I've talked to myself many times about that incident.

Chuck

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Good job Chuck. I can't think of a worse problem, short of the Jesus Nut coming off......
You obviously were mentally prepared for it and handled it well. Wonder how much longer those bearings would have held up.

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Probably not more than a minute or so, Wes. No vibrations at 80% power, but cockpit moving up and down 1 foot per rotor revolution when pushed collective down to cruise power. Pulled back in 80% and it stopped. Only thing I could think of was to reduce rotor loads so I cyclic climbed to bleed off speed to 40 knots from 120. That put me into the clouds so now I'm IFR. Got it to 40 knots and lowered the collective (power) very slowly to 20%. No vibrations. Glided back to the airport and did a running landing so I wouldn't have to put in power again to hover. All that took probably 10-15 minutes I guess. I thought it was over for me that day, but I got lucky.

Chuck

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:53 am 
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Wes Bender wrote:
...I can't think of a worse problem, short of the Jesus Nut coming off....

Never flown a rotary-wing, but I have little doubt there is a bias by fixed wing flyers: A (several thousand hour) GA buddy warned me darkly about getting into one of those things, referring to the 'Jesus Nut' (...pretty sure the equivalent Jesus Nut is behind the left controls in a fixed wing...)
Anyhow, to this day, I've yet to find a decent comparison of fixed to rotary in either Google or Bing. Got one?
Added by edit: Nice job, Chuck!

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:25 am 
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Did the guy even scratch the plane?


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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Ron LaDow wrote:
Wes Bender wrote:
...I can't think of a worse problem, short of the Jesus Nut coming off....

Never flown a rotary-wing, but I have little doubt there is a bias by fixed wing flyers: A (several thousand hour) GA buddy warned me darkly about getting into one of those things, referring to the 'Jesus Nut' (...pretty sure the equivalent Jesus Nut is behind the left controls in a fixed wing...)
Anyhow, to this day, I've yet to find a decent comparison of fixed to rotary in either Google or Bing. Got one?
Added by edit: Nice job, Chuck!

I'm commercial fixed and rotary. After flying a Cobra, I think it's all about the airplane. The Cobra is the best production machine I have flown. It's fast, acrobatically responsive (several thousand feet / minute in a cyclic climb), and smooth. In the 60's it was the Porsche of helicopters. That said, I'm sure the F-35 is a wonderful machine.

From a total engine failure standpoint, a rotary wing has much less glide (basically look down, that's where you are going to land), but also much less touchdown speed (we shoot for 0 speed and usually slide not more than 5-10'. I've also had two total engine failures with no further damage to the aircraft.

Chuck

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Last edited by Charles H Jacobus on Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:24 pm 
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John Lindstrom wrote:
Did the guy even scratch the plane?

The P51 was more than scratched, the only damage to the Cobra was the swashplate which, of course, was a total loss. :)

Chuck

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:20 am 
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Charles H Jacobus wrote:
John Lindstrom wrote:
Did the guy even scratch the plane?

The P51 was more than scratched, the only damage to the Cobra was the swashplate which, of course, was a total loss. :)
Chuck

Enjoyable book regarding restoration of 'Gate Guard' Spitfires: "Spitfires and Polished Metal: Restoring the Classic Fighter" https://www.amazon.com/Spitfires-Polish ... shed+metal
Strange title in that the Brits cammo'd all their planes, but still a good overview of what it takes to resto a war-bird; 'start at the rear; they get more complicated as you go forward'.
Dunno who does engines in the UK, but in the US (AFAIK) the only certificated rebuild service is Vintage V12s outside of Lancaster (it's where I want to work when I grow up), and you'd think that was the money hole. But as mentioned in that book, the most expensive single 'unit' is the Hamilton prop.
And, yep, that P-51 prop got 'streamlined' in the landing.

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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:49 pm 
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A friend of mine was flying a Corsair for some pictures to be used in a movie off the coast of Florida, when the engine sputtered and died. Apparently the published glide ratios are at odds with real practice, and he put it down in (luckily) calm water. Took a week to raise the plane, which is now flying again.


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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:22 am 
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Ron LaDow wrote:
the plane has let you down; use the plane's capabilities to save your life, don't use your life to save the plane.


Mrs B was in the Royal Navy where it was ship before your life!!


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 Post subject: Re: "Task Saturation"
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:57 pm 
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Chuck,
Wow, I'm sure I would have to change my shorts many times for sure.
Are the Blade's made of composition Material or Titanium Pressurized with Nitrogen gas on the Cobra Helicopters?.
I'm with a company for 37 years building a system that called IBIS for the CH53 Sikorsky helicopter super stallions.
The Navy is holding off with the new Composition Blades, they like the Pressurized blades and with this system, the pilots have a chance to land if a blade failure happens.
IBIS = In Flight Blade Inspection System
Thank you, Ron, for the video always interesting.
Herlin
1958 A coupe


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