Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
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- 356 Fan
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Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
I took the '57 A to Euro Sunday today, about 12 miles away, and I took mostly surface streets. About 3/4 of the way there, I was noticing a rhytmic "clunk...clunk...clunk" from the rear - in my mind it seemed to be coming from the right side - as I would slowly coast up to a stoplight. There was a short freeway section, and after that, I noticed a very distinct whine from the transmission. It also seemed to be clunking when I turned. After the event, I limped it home. The whine got a little worse, and I also noticed a weird rhythmic "booming" sound when coasting in-gear with the clutch engaged. Shifting was perfect.
When I got home, I had a bunch of other stuff to do so I haven't been able to spend any time on it. I also have another car dismembered on the lift, so I won't be able to do a decent inspection any time soon.
At the event I took a quick look underneath and I didn't see any evidence of an axle boot explosion or leak of any sort. I replaced the boots and trans fluid in April of last year. According to the "documentation" I got with the car, the transmission was rebuilt by some shop in Florida, and it did look like it had received some attention, as the case was spotless and tidy. When I changed the fluid back then, there were no sparkles or chunks in the old fluid.
With my limited knowledge of transmissions, I'm going to say that either a diff/ring&pinion bearing is going south in a big way, or the diff wasn't setup correctly and destroyed itself. I'm going with the former, as having mis-configured a VW diff once (I flipped the ring and pinion to put a reduction box transmission in a baja bug) I didn't get very many miles out of it before everything broke.
When I got home, I had a bunch of other stuff to do so I haven't been able to spend any time on it. I also have another car dismembered on the lift, so I won't be able to do a decent inspection any time soon.
At the event I took a quick look underneath and I didn't see any evidence of an axle boot explosion or leak of any sort. I replaced the boots and trans fluid in April of last year. According to the "documentation" I got with the car, the transmission was rebuilt by some shop in Florida, and it did look like it had received some attention, as the case was spotless and tidy. When I changed the fluid back then, there were no sparkles or chunks in the old fluid.
With my limited knowledge of transmissions, I'm going to say that either a diff/ring&pinion bearing is going south in a big way, or the diff wasn't setup correctly and destroyed itself. I'm going with the former, as having mis-configured a VW diff once (I flipped the ring and pinion to put a reduction box transmission in a baja bug) I didn't get very many miles out of it before everything broke.
1956 VW Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
- C J Murray
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
I would drain the oil and see if anything comes out. Feel around with your pinky looking for chunks.
Some common failures are...cracked diff carrier, broken R&P bolts(if they are originals), intermediate plate bearings(can cause diff setting problems, wheel bearing failure(if you are lucky) and maybe a diff carrier bearing.
If it failed soon after a rebuild the setting of the clearances could have been wrong.
Some common failures are...cracked diff carrier, broken R&P bolts(if they are originals), intermediate plate bearings(can cause diff setting problems, wheel bearing failure(if you are lucky) and maybe a diff carrier bearing.
If it failed soon after a rebuild the setting of the clearances could have been wrong.
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- Bill Sargent
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
In addition to Cliff's suggestion, or possibly a first step, check the rear axel nuts for tightness/torque. Should be ~ 400 ft lbs. I had similar noises in my 59A on the way back from Santa Fe to Seattle in 2013 and a loose axel nut was the cause. Found a VW place, tightened it up and made it home. Then got the splines in the drum replaced to really cure the problem.
Regards,
Bill Sargent
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Bill Sargent
#151489 59A Cab - Faux Cam
#159176 64C Cab
#460603 67 912
904 clone in the works
- John Lindstrom
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
The last time that my 356 made that noise it was the clutch disc and pressure plate not playing fair in the sandbox together. Sounded like there was a train inside my engine compartment..
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
I finally got around to looking at my transmission noise! I had my 23-window torn apart on the lift, and I didn't want to get it all put back together just to look at the 356.
Interestingly, when I fired up the 356 and drove it into the shop and onto the lift, the back end didn't make a peep.
So, I drained the transmission fluid first. There was some hair on the drain plug magnet, and a fair amount of sparklies in the oil. I don't recall off the top of my head how much oil there is supposed to be, but I got about 3 quarts or so out of it.
I took the wheels off, and there is definite evidence of axle seal leaks on both sides.
I removed the brake drum and wheel bearing on the side that seemed to be making the noise. There is a substantial amount of wear on the inner spacer - something wasn't playing nice. The wheel bearing on this side (haven't removed the other one yet) looks and feels great.
I think my plan of attack should be to replace the crufty pieces, install new spacers, seals and wheel bearings, re-fill the fluid and see where the night takes us.
Interestingly, when I fired up the 356 and drove it into the shop and onto the lift, the back end didn't make a peep.
So, I drained the transmission fluid first. There was some hair on the drain plug magnet, and a fair amount of sparklies in the oil. I don't recall off the top of my head how much oil there is supposed to be, but I got about 3 quarts or so out of it.
I took the wheels off, and there is definite evidence of axle seal leaks on both sides.
I removed the brake drum and wheel bearing on the side that seemed to be making the noise. There is a substantial amount of wear on the inner spacer - something wasn't playing nice. The wheel bearing on this side (haven't removed the other one yet) looks and feels great.
I think my plan of attack should be to replace the crufty pieces, install new spacers, seals and wheel bearings, re-fill the fluid and see where the night takes us.
1956 VW Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
- David Jones
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
My "C" made a clunking noise so I shut it down and trailered it home. The picture tells the story. I hope your is less expensive.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
What caused that? Doing smoky burnouts while leaving Cars and Coffee?
1956 VW Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
- David Jones
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
Might have been the throttle steering on those twisty flat roads in the mystic hills to the East of Fort Wayne in Ohio.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Doug McDonnell
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
Must be quite a ways East of Ft Wayne David. Flat Van Wert is a huge wind farm now.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
Always good idea to grab the tire (when off the ground) and check for play. 9 & 3 - 12 & 6 positions.
Do that before you pull wheels and axle nuts (next time).
Do that before you pull wheels and axle nuts (next time).
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
I actually did that - and couldn't get any play (like prom night all over again...)Martin Bruechle wrote:Always good idea to grab the tire (when off the ground) and check for play. 9 & 3 - 12 & 6 positions.
Do that before you pull wheels and axle nuts (next time).
1956 VW Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupé
1957 VW 23-window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Unimog 411
1963 Mercedes Unimog 404
1965 Jaguar E-Type
2003 BMW M3
- Ron LaDow
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
http://instantrimshot.com/Thom Fitzpatrick wrote:[...]and couldn't get any play (like prom night all over again...)
(you been saving that, haven't you?)
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz
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- Vic Skirmants
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
David; that is an early ring gear you had; was it a 6-bolt?
- David Jones
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
6 bolt Vic even though it was on my 64C. This was because the initial trans rebuild was by Eric wills and I supplied another diff carrier because the first diff carrier had the bearing carrier snapped off. It lasted about 5K miles before the tooth snapped off and then you rebuilt it and it of course has been fine ever since.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
Cymru am byth
David Jones #9715
- Mike Wilson
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Re: Internet Armchair Diagnosis: transmission
On my '58, I had the same problem David did, a broken tooth on the ring gear. I found out that the previous owner had disassembled the transaxle, rebuilt the innards but didn't flush out the case. A chunch of a broken part found its way in between the ring and pinion. The clunk was very loud but since I was close, nursed it home.
Mike
Mike
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
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