Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

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Mark Sabbann
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Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#1 Post by Mark Sabbann »

Tom Spiegel of the Wisconsin 356 group organized a gathering of the faithful last Saturday. In past years on this weekend we've been right at Road America at Turn 5 but this year it wasn't to be so we were set up in the nearby town of Elkhart Lake. A nice group though, a couple of Normals, a twin-grille Roadster, a Speedster and examples of three blues in paint colors.
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Ronald Sieber
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#2 Post by Ronald Sieber »

Hey, Mark:
Would either you or Tom S be able to identify the light blue paint color on the coupe in the foreground of photo #4. Paint number, year, color name, mfgr?
Looked to be a beautiful day out your way! Nice photos, too.
Thanks in advance for any help on the color,

=rds

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Mark Sabbann
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#3 Post by Mark Sabbann »

Ron, sorry I didn't get a better picture of that car. I think it's an A coupe and if the paint is correct for those years, it would be Meissen blue. I haven't seen many cars in that color so I can't say whether it's a true representation of that color or slightly different. The next two closest blues, but from different years are Aetna and Speedster blue. I don't know much more than that about the paint, but this chart from John Wilhoit, http://www.willhoitautorestoration.com/paintsamples.php shows all the 356 colors with number codes. You can purchase a spray-out sample from John that good restoration shops can match with today's paint formulations.
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Walt Nolte
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#4 Post by Walt Nolte »

59 A Coupe Meissen Blue matched to one of John Willhoit's spray cards. Two stage paint.

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John Lindstrom
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#5 Post by John Lindstrom »

John Wihoits paint samples are only approximations, they are not accurate. I have a preserved 1959 in Meissan Blue, it has a lot more green in it than John's samples.

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Martin Benade
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#6 Post by Martin Benade »

Colors vary a lot, I bet John's were carefully matched to original cars. Like many other aspects of a 356, beverages at lunch may have affected the color mixes on a given day.
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Ron LaDow
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#7 Post by Ron LaDow »

Martin Benade wrote:Colors vary a lot, I bet John's were carefully matched to original cars. Like many other aspects of a 356, beverages at lunch may have affected the color mixes on a given day.
In the Industrial Exhibit industry, years back, matching colors was a regular labor cost and a constant, contentious issue. Matching a client-supplied purple or "neutral" (ha, ha!) gray got several hours of labor in the quote.
To pick an example, a color in enamel under under incandescent light over a white primer will absolutely match a lacquer over a gray primer in sun-light, unless the lacquer was sprayed on a humid day, in which case, it lost its 'sharpness'. Under fluorescent, you'd wonder who mixed that paint.
The hood on my Lusso was wonderful under sunlight; under whatever was the street-light tech in the '90s, the front, right corner was orange.
I will state as an absolute, you cannot "match" a color such that everyone who sees it under every light source will agree that it matches. I get noise about obsessing over compression ratios and quench clearance, but those got numbers!
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John Lindstrom
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#8 Post by John Lindstrom »

Willhoits sample matches the first coat of paint that they applied over primer at the factory. It was a basic mixture, not meant to be the final color. They added additional color for the second and final coat of "Meissan Blue" applied where color would be visible, but not inside the doors.
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Martin Benade
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#9 Post by Martin Benade »

Willhoit's site doesn't say that. I am sure those were matched to fully painted, as much as possible unfaded parts of original cars. Colors are seldom identical from one car to another. On modern cars that I work on at my shop most colors have several variant formulas, sometimes eight or ten. Your car is correct, and so is the one John matched. When I was planning my Ruby Red paint job I talked to people at an ECH and attempted to match one car that claimed originality and looked best to me.
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#10 Post by John Lindstrom »


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Martin Benade
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#11 Post by Martin Benade »

Do you feel that all factory Meissen Blue Porsches matched other exactly, with no possible variation?
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Brett Meyer
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#12 Post by Brett Meyer »

FWIW--
The Meissen Blue coupe at Elkhart lake is Tom Grunnah's as is the Speedster next to it .
Both wonderful cars !
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Jim Liberty
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#13 Post by Jim Liberty »

Guys, the paint was bought in volume by Porsche. Undoubtedly mixed by hand (Not computer). Just like carpet, vinyl, and leather hides, it varied from lot to lot. Get it close, there is NO correct color. I always buy more paint and an extra hide when I restore. They are never exactly the same if not done that way.
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Steve Harrison
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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#14 Post by Steve Harrison »

Plus one on Jim’s post.
I had a heck of a time matching the Pearl Grey on my coupe. (I’d love to see the Pearl you put on your recent Conti btw)
I had the Wilhoit card, and a few areas on the car where the one overspray in the seventies didn’t reach to go by.
The Wilhoit card didn’t match. Nor did the sample I had from Glasurit.
But then I got a tip from Bruce Baker to gently push out the soft aluminum rivets holding the vin plate on the door post panel. Bingo. I had an unmolested, original, and more importantly,...unoxidized version of the original color of my car. I had it “shot” with the color gun at my local paint dealer, and had it matched. When I painted the door closer panel I taped off that original paint just inboard of the footprint of the vin plate. I figured if anybody ever wanted to see it after I’m gone they’d have that luxury that way.
When I took the tape off,...I coudn’t tell where the original and the new met. A perfect match.

I think that although the Wilhoit cards are matched to original paint cars, you have to account for the fact that even if carefully maintained, 50+ years of sun and atmospheric oxygen may have altered the way the paint presents itself today.

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Re: Bathtubs at Elkhart Lake

#15 Post by Jim Liberty »

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Here is my Pearl Grey '55 Continental. Shane East pulled this from the paint mixes, and it looks like the last '55 I did in that color.

.......................I NEVER say it is correct, Jim.
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