Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
- James Rogers
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Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
I'd like to hear from or get some thoughts here from members here that are old enough to have moved from the 356's to the early 911's from let say, 1965-1968S?
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- C J Murray
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
Two completely different cars, owning a 911S will tell you little about owning a 356.
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- Adam Wright
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
I know several guys who have restored many a 356 and decided to restore an early 911, and were very overwhelmed by the complexity of a 911, compared to the 356.
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- Joris Koning
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
Adam Wright wrote:I know several guys who have restored many a 356 and decided to restore an early 911, and were very overwhelmed by the complexity of a 911, compared to the 356.
Working on a '65 as a summer driver for the misses right now. A lot more shit going on in these compared to a 356. Enjoying the experience a lot. Not sure if it is more complex, just more areas/parts to address.
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
It gets worse the newer they get. Trying to find someone who can re-build and tune MFI is tough, compared to someone who can do carbs.Joris Koning wrote:Adam Wright wrote:I know several guys who have restored many a 356 and decided to restore an early 911, and were very overwhelmed by the complexity of a 911, compared to the 356.
Working on a '65 as a summer driver for the misses right now. A lot more shit going on in these compared to a 356. Enjoying the experience a lot. Not sure if it is more complex, just more areas/parts to address.
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Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
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- Joris Koning
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
Indeed. I also have a more modern 911, the misses drives it. Just replaced all suspension arms and a host of other parts. Will not touch any of the electronics nor some of the hard to get to engine stuff. To much shit going on with those cars. Glad to pay somebody else to do those jobs. You gotta love the simple design of the 356, everything is easy to get to, simple, made of quality materials etc. the perfect cars for amateurs like me to work onAdam Wright wrote:It gets worse the newer they get. Trying to find someone who can re-build and tune MFI is tough, compared to someone who can do carbs.Joris Koning wrote:Adam Wright wrote:I know several guys who have restored many a 356 and decided to restore an early 911, and were very overwhelmed by the complexity of a 911, compared to the 356.
Working on a '65 as a summer driver for the misses right now. A lot more shit going on in these compared to a 356. Enjoying the experience a lot. Not sure if it is more complex, just more areas/parts to address.
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- Jim Alton
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
I must have done things backwards. I got this in 1997:
And this in 2004:
A few points:
Complexity (at least in my view as an Aerospace Systems Engineer) isn't hugely different although the 911's wiring diagram has twice as much stuff as the 356's. The '65 911 adds backup lights and the ability to turn on the parking lights on one side via the turn signal lever.
Engine Access is easier in the 911 as is engine R&R (although the 911 engine-transaxle is a lot heavier than the 356 engine).
Fuel Consumption is way, way less in the 356.
Noise The 356 is quieter and the radio's easier to hear. An interesting thing about the Cabriolet is that near 60 mph with the top down (if it's not too windy, i.e. turbulent) the 356 Cab's aerodynamics form a sort of cone of silence and it's really, really quiet.
Driveability
And this in 2004:
A few points:
Complexity (at least in my view as an Aerospace Systems Engineer) isn't hugely different although the 911's wiring diagram has twice as much stuff as the 356's. The '65 911 adds backup lights and the ability to turn on the parking lights on one side via the turn signal lever.
Engine Access is easier in the 911 as is engine R&R (although the 911 engine-transaxle is a lot heavier than the 356 engine).
Fuel Consumption is way, way less in the 356.
Noise The 356 is quieter and the radio's easier to hear. An interesting thing about the Cabriolet is that near 60 mph with the top down (if it's not too windy, i.e. turbulent) the 356 Cab's aerodynamics form a sort of cone of silence and it's really, really quiet.
Driveability
- All the controls are lighter in the 911 and its rack-and-pinion steering is incredible.
- The early 911's low-end torque is underwhelming (the 2.4 liter cars are supposed to be different) so you shift gears a lot; the 356 is happy in just about any gear.
- 140 hp DIN in the 911 doesn't sound like a lot but it's effortlessly fast. A 356A with "Speedster" gears... not so much.
Jim Alton
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- C J Murray
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
356 coupes are as noisy as the 911 coupes. Life in the tin can.
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
Personally I like different ends of the spectrum. I have a 60 Roadster, and a 95 993 as my drivers. Working on a bunch of projects that are years away from the road. I also have a C43 AMG Mercedes for raw speed, and a 65 Mustang for getting ice cream with the kids and doing local car shows.
Having Porsches that we only 10-15 years apart seems kind of redundant. I know a 911S is a far different car from a 356, but they are still both air cooled cars with early and sometimes crude systems. Variety is nice.
Having Porsches that we only 10-15 years apart seems kind of redundant. I know a 911S is a far different car from a 356, but they are still both air cooled cars with early and sometimes crude systems. Variety is nice.
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
Bring it by my place so I can show you how to drive it properly hahaha
- Jim Alton
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
Lord yes.Joris Koning wrote:. . .
Indeed. I also have a more modern 911, the misses drives it. Just replaced all suspension arms and a host of other parts. Will not touch any of the electronics nor some of the hard to get to engine stuff. To much shit going on with those cars. Glad to pay somebody else to do those jobs. You gotta love the simple design of the 356, everything is easy to get to, simple, made of quality materials etc. the perfect cars for amateurs like me to work on
I had to change the water pump on my Boxster. It was roughly $ 250 for parts (one pump, one gasket and a couple jugs of genuine Porsche anti-freeze). I understand the whole job at an independent Porsche repair shop is over $ 1,000! That's a ton of labor charge.
It's kind of like rebuilding an engine in a bottle: the pump's hidden just below the opening in the firewall behind the seats and the little 6 mm bolts that hold it on a murder to get a wrench on.
Last edited by Jim Alton on Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jim Alton
Los Angeles County, CA
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
My '73 S is a hell of a lot quicker. The engine noises are more modern. The steering is more precise, but they both are unassisted which is dynamite. The link between the old and new is strong, but the progress is immense.
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
You can not compare a 911 and a 356/912, anymore then you can compare hang gliding and fighter jets.
I have owned quite a few 911's, and, honestly....intoxicating as they are, they are also a pain in the ass to do even basic maintenance (valve adj/carb adj, or God help you the MFI goes sideways....) I finally swore off of 911's 2 years ago, sold my last one and bought my T-5 coupe....and my brain went "AHHHhhhhhhhh"...peace at last.
You like the "900" body style (it IS mightly purdy) then, may I suggest a 912...
I have owned quite a few 911's, and, honestly....intoxicating as they are, they are also a pain in the ass to do even basic maintenance (valve adj/carb adj, or God help you the MFI goes sideways....) I finally swore off of 911's 2 years ago, sold my last one and bought my T-5 coupe....and my brain went "AHHHhhhhhhhh"...peace at last.
You like the "900" body style (it IS mightly purdy) then, may I suggest a 912...
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- James Rogers
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
Since getting my 67 911SWT back on the road (for the 1st times since I bought it 2011) last summer and two two major repair to fix everything under the sun, I can say, it was worth every single penny. With just over 50K on the original factory built motor (yes, the Targa only has 50K total mileage) and now back to flawless performance and not one drop of oil leaking. The versatility of the SWT (all buttoned up, Targa top off or back window removed or even thing off) is it's strong point and you'd never really understand it unless you owned and operated one.
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- Jules Dielen
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Re: Early 911/S in Lieu of the 356
just enjoy both Jim, they each have their strong points. It's like asking for the 'best' 356 - you will get 50 different answers. I like the 356 because of its simplicity and the sound. I like my SWT for the sound and simplicity they both keep up up with traffic just fine, even the Pre A will do 75mph all day long, and as long as I don't have to turn or use the brakes it puts a big grin on my face. A C or an SC isn't that far behind a swb 911 other than the sound. Handles well, shifts well, brakes well and plenty powerful.
Happy to see the SWT is back on the road after all these years!
Happy to see the SWT is back on the road after all these years!
Jules
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.