356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
Message
Author
Llew Kinst
356 Fan
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Cupertino, California
Contact:

356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#1 Post by Llew Kinst »

If you were at Rennsport you must have seen the Gmünd 356 SL Chassis No.: 356/2-063 that was on display along with the other LeMans winners. I thought I would fill in more of the story for those of you that don't know the car. This is the ex Chuck Forge/von Neumann roadster that Chuck ran at the Historics from 1982. Not only was this car the 1100cc class winner at LeMans in 1951 (Porsche's first victory at LeMans, and the first German car to participate after WWII) but it then went on to an illustrious race history here in the U.S. chalking up many wins. In early 1952 von Neumann had the roof removed creating a lightweight highly competitive roadster.The story goes that Max Hoffman hand carried photos of the car to Ferry Porsche to use as an example of what a lightweight entry level Porsche could look like. Hoffman knew that such a car would sell well in the U.S. and was pressing the factory hard to build one. The result two years later was the Speedster.

After Chuck's passing his estate contracted Clark Anderson and myself to help market and sell all of the cars and parts. The Gmünd was the star of the collection. After extensive research by Clark and myself a 23 page report documenting its history was completed. I will post a PDF copy for you to read.

All prospective buyers were given copies of this report that confirmed that this car was in fact the 1100cc class winner at LeMans as well as documenting all of it's history from the day it was built to the day Chuck passed away.

Knowing they had purchased the LeMans winner, current owner Cameron Healy and project manager Rod Emory decided to return the car to it's LeMans specification which meant putting the roof back on. This is how the car was presented at this years Rennsport. The work done to date is quite remarkable.
Llew Kinst

Llew Kinst
356 Fan
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Cupertino, California
Contact:

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#2 Post by Llew Kinst »

Here is the link to the PDF of the research document created by Clark and myself

http://www.autograph.net/356SL.pdf
Llew Kinst

User avatar
Peter Burger
356 Fan
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:24 pm
Location: Spring, TX

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#3 Post by Peter Burger »

Llew,
Quite a story. Thanks for sharing all the details
Regards
Peter
'64 356C Coupe
'50 NSU Fox 98 Motorcycle
'51 Maico M126 Motorcycle
'51 Horex Regina 350 Motorcycle

User avatar
Wes Bender
356 Fan
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:54 am
Location: Somewhere in the Gadsden Purchase, USA

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#4 Post by Wes Bender »

Thanks for documenting this history for us, Lew.

Cheers,
Wes
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....

User avatar
James Davies
356Talk Moderator
Posts: 2951
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Heidelberg, DE

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#5 Post by James Davies »

Thanks for sharing Llew. Fantastic history, and fantastic job researching it!

Llew Kinst
356 Fan
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Cupertino, California
Contact:

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#6 Post by Llew Kinst »

My pleasure guys. Chuck was a great friend and it was really a team effort when he restored the car back in the 80's. Once done I just happened to be in the right place at the right time when he tossed me the keys and said take it around the block. What a thrill that was!
Llew Kinst

User avatar
Alex Parmenter
356 Fan
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:57 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#7 Post by Alex Parmenter »

fantastic read, huge thanks for sharing this!
Always searching for parts for my Oct 54 Pre A coupe including these:
2 piece engine case to #336XX
Gear knob
Front bumper
Passenger sun visor
Bosch SH/ZS4/1 Ignition switch
Vigot jack (late 54)

 

User avatar
Pat OBryant
356 Fan
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:07 pm
Tag: Florida Farmer

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#8 Post by Pat OBryant »

I enjoyed the article. Thanks for posting.

User avatar
Vic Skirmants
Registry Hall of Fame
Posts: 9276
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
Location: SE Michigan
Contact:

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#9 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Llew; great stuff.
I do have to check some chassis number details in my records. I think 2-054 and 2-055 have their histories crossed.

User avatar
James Davies
356Talk Moderator
Posts: 2951
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Heidelberg, DE

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#10 Post by James Davies »

Would be interested to see the histories as you have them Vic. Many more photos of these cars have surfaced over the years, and the small detail differences between them might make it easier to sort out.

Llew Kinst
356 Fan
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Cupertino, California
Contact:

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#11 Post by Llew Kinst »

Hi Vic
Thanks for the heads up, I was not as focused on those two as I was on the Forge car so I could have gotten my wires crossed
Llew Kinst

Olivier Auvray
356 Fan
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Porscheville France
Contact:

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#12 Post by Olivier Auvray »

I've 2 questions:

1) do you have a real proof that 063 had number "46" for Le Mans 1951?

2) on the following photo, can you tell me which car has the third shaft for the third wiper ( on the top oh the windshield)?

I met M. Forge in 2009 at Laguna Seca and we ha a too short discussion about his car!
Attachments
image.jpeg

User avatar
James Davies
356Talk Moderator
Posts: 2951
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Heidelberg, DE

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#13 Post by James Davies »

Olivier, both #46 and #47 had shafts for 3rd wipers at Le Mans in 1951. In this photo, you can see clearly the shaft, and also you can see clearly Llew's remarks about how poorly the front windshield rubber fits on this car.

Unfortunately, that ill-fitting rubber on the windshield is the best evidence that links the 1951 Le Mans #46 car to the 1100cc car at Liège-Rome-Liège 1951, and from then on, it is very easy to track based on the front blinker position.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2015-10-23 at 5.28.21 PM.png

Olivier Auvray
356 Fan
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Porscheville France
Contact:

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#14 Post by Olivier Auvray »

Ok, I'll check asap the photo taken in Téloché (the workshop used by Porsche near Le Mans).

The third wiper was not a standard equipment for "sl" . For me, only one car has it on the photo taken in Téloché (before the race) and something is wrong because it's number 47!

Now, if you're looking for photos from 1952, one more time only one car has the third wiper: Toto's car (Toto was the nickname of M. Veuillet)



....A Swabish doesn't like customs taxes........
Attachments
image.jpeg

Olivier Auvray
356 Fan
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:19 pm
Location: Porscheville France
Contact:

Re: 356SL LeMans Winner at Rennsport

#15 Post by Olivier Auvray »

Olivier AUVRAY wrote:Ok, I'll check asap the photo taken in Téloché (the workshop used by Porsche near Le Mans).

The third wiper was not a standard equipment for "sl" . For me, only one car has it on the photo taken in Téloché (before the race) and something is wrong because it's number 47!

Now, if you're looking for photos from 1952, one more time only one car has the third wiper: Toto's car (Toto was the nickname of M. Veuillet)



....A Swabish doesn't like customs taxes........
Sorry..... I'm wrong.... I've photos from 1952 with and without third wiper for numbers 47-50 & 51.
Attachments
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
image.jpeg (76.49 KiB) Viewed 2594 times

Post Reply