headlight lens

For those who obsess about exactly how their 356 left the factory!
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Eric Cherneff
356 Fan
Posts: 796
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:32 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

headlight lens

#1 Post by Eric Cherneff » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:49 am

What is the correct headlight lens for a 1961? I researched here and on the Samba, and understand it should NOT have "SB19 SB20 SB21" on it (1963? and later), and would likely be made by Hella.

The equivalent VW part at the time had a VW logo and "E1.0671.01" across bottom, Hella at the top, and "25484" in lower left corner.

Did Porsche use the same one, or did they have one without the VW logo on it?

The Hella assemblies that were on the car when I bought it 2 years ago are date stamped for late 1960 which is correct for the car. However, one lens has SB19 etc. on it, and the other is completely devoid of markings, so I assume it is repro.
Eric Cherneff
1966 912

356 Registry database manager

Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: headlight lens

#2 Post by Jan Kolm » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am

The correct Hella sealed-beam lens has a large Hella logo at the bottom and two rows of data that follow the curved bottom of the lens. These were produced from ~1958 until late 1963 and are correct for adssemblies with adjusting screws at the 5 and 7 o'clock positions.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

User avatar
Eric Cherneff
356 Fan
Posts: 796
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:32 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: headlight lens

#3 Post by Eric Cherneff » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:08 pm

Thanks Jan - one point of clarification - they do not have VW logos on them?
Eric Cherneff
1966 912

356 Registry database manager

User avatar
Jim Breazeale
356 Fan
Posts: 2893
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:07 pm
Tag: SF Giants Fan
Location: SF Bay Area
Contact:

Re: headlight lens

#4 Post by Jim Breazeale » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:35 pm

Here is a picture of an unrestored headlight. According to Paul's data it was made in the 3rd week of January 1961.
Attachments
IMG_0601.jpg
IMG_0600.jpg
Jim Breazeale
www.easypor.com
www.facebook.com/pages/European-Auto-Salvage-Yard-EASY/120458108029410

User avatar
Eric Cherneff
356 Fan
Posts: 796
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:32 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: headlight lens

#5 Post by Eric Cherneff » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:56 am

Thanks Jim, very helpful. You wouldn't have a really nice pair of lens like this available do you? Please contact me offline if you do.
Eric Cherneff
1966 912

356 Registry database manager

Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: headlight lens

#6 Post by Jan Kolm » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:29 pm

Jim Breazeale wrote:... According to Paul's data it was made in the 3rd week of January 1961.
I did the Hella date code research and posted it on the Samba. Paul simply pulled it from there and included it in his article. He just couldn't assign credit for it because I posted it anonomously. At the time i finished the research (~2000), nobody on the 356Talk forum, other than Brad Ripley and I, had much of an interest in deciphering date codes. The VW Barndoor Bus community, on the other hand, had an extreme interest, so that's where they ended up.

Part numbers for the late T-2/356B clear lenses are -3-60370 and 4-60370. There may be others. Correct lenses have no VW logos on them.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

User avatar
Joris Koning
356 Fan
Posts: 1748
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: headlight lens

#7 Post by Joris Koning » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:55 pm

Jan,

Thank you very much for the great research you did. I believe back in 2000 there were also other people interested in this kind of research. They might not have been aware of your work.

Joris
'56 Coupe
'57 Coupe
'59 Cab 
'60 Coupe

User avatar
Bob DiCorpo
356 Fan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: headlight lens

#8 Post by Bob DiCorpo » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:03 pm

Jan,
Would you know what the original headlight glass for a 1956 Speedster would look like and what numbers and/or logos it would have on it? Thank you, Bob
Bob DiCorpo
'56 Speedster
Massachusetts 

Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: headlight lens

#9 Post by Jan Kolm » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:55 pm

Bob DiCorpo wrote:Jan,
Would you know what the original headlight glass for a 1956 Speedster would look like and what numbers and/or logos it would have on it? Thank you, Bob
Bob,

The picture in Brett Johnson's authenticity books doesn't give a lot of detail, But I believe early 356A lenses have a small Hella logo at the bottom and (possibly) no numbers on the face of the lens. Very early 356A (1955 production) lenses may still have the "vestigial oval" in the center of the lens.

The part number (60370?) is cast into the backside of the lip at the top, along with the Hella name. A single digit number (2?) is cast into the lip at the bottom.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

User avatar
roy mawbey
356 Fan
Posts: 800
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:47 am
Location: SUNNY SUSSEX IN THE UK

Re: headlight lens

#10 Post by roy mawbey » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:55 am

My 59 T2 "A" delivered into the UK in mid 59 still has the original headlight lenses. They are however Bosch headlights although original other lighting items on my car are Hella.

I presume? the Bosch headlights went onto cars delivered to Europe and Hella went to the USA? Mine are of course not sealed beam, more like candle beam :)

I attach 2 photos taken a while back
2010_0206headlamps0004.JPG
2010_0206headlamps0002.JPG
Roy
RHD356Asuper75 106954
ROY ALAN MAWBEY

User avatar
Chuck House
356 Fan
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:26 pm
Tag: See you on the road!
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Re: headlight lens

#11 Post by Chuck House » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:56 am

Jan Kolm wrote:
Bob DiCorpo wrote:Jan,
Would you know what the original headlight glass for a 1956 Speedster would look like and what numbers and/or logos it would have on it? Thank you, Bob
Bob,

The picture in Brett Johnson's authenticity books doesn't give a lot of detail, But I believe early 356A lenses have a small Hella logo at the bottom and (possibly) no numbers on the face of the lens. Very early 356A (1955 production) lenses may still have the "vestigial oval" in the center of the lens.

The part number (60370?) is cast into the backside of the lip at the top, along with the Hella name. A single digit number (2?) is cast into the lip at the bottom.
Here is an early 56 356A lens with the "vestigial oval".
Attachments
Sept 19 '05 115.jpg
Chuck House
Southern California

User avatar
Bob DiCorpo
356 Fan
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: headlight lens

#12 Post by Bob DiCorpo » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:54 pm

Thank you Chuck and Jan. I've never seen this type of lens. They must be difficult to come by. Regards, Bob
Bob DiCorpo
'56 Speedster
Massachusetts 

Richard Koenig
356 Fan
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: headlight lens

#13 Post by Richard Koenig » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:33 pm

Thanks, Jan, for your comments about the SB 19-21 lenses.
Unfortunately I am now confused because I thought these lenses started much earlier, around 1959. Also, I don't know now which headlight rings are correct and which headlight units should be used. I have several NOS headlight rings with the 5 & 7 holes at the bottom and some restored buckets for the same with holes for parking light bulbs.
Is there a summary chart somewhere that I could refer to? If so, will you kindly send me a reference?
Thanks, Dick Koenig, Denver.

Jan Kolm
356 Fan
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Location: Colorado

Re: headlight lens

#14 Post by Jan Kolm » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:01 am

Dick,

There are three basic varieties of Hella rings with holes at 5 and 7 o'clock used on 356s.

The first type has a single rivet securing the mounting tab and a rolled inner lip. These were used until sometime in 1954.

The second type has two rivets securing the mounting tab and a rolled inner lip. These were used 1954-55.

The third type has two rivets and no rolled inner lip. These were used from about the end of calendar year 1955 to the end of calendar year 1963.

As for the buckets w/parking light holes--if they are the type with the single, bail type spring across the bottom, there are no real differences 1956-63, other than the paint.
- 1956-58: Gloss black w/ silver inside
- 1959: Silver inside and out
- 1960-63: Matte gray inside and out

U.S. market 356Bs do not use the parking light in the bucket - a blanking plate was used 1960 - ~1962 and the hole was eliminated during the 1962 or 1963 model years. I do not believe Brett Johnson has well-defined transition points by chassis numbers.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

Greg Bryan
356Talk Moderator
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:05 pm
Tag: Be Nice!
Location: San Pedro, CA 90732

Re: headlight lens

#15 Post by Greg Bryan » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:26 pm

If you're not aware, there is a headlight lens thread 'sticky' with 7 pages of discussion
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33980
After this discussion runs its course, I will merge this discussion into the sticky thread
Greg Bryan
356Talk Moderator

Post Reply